Show notes
If the rules-based order is broken, what comes next? And who will lead it? Mark Leonard argues in his new book, Surviving Chaos: Geopolitics When the Rules Fail, that the coming system will be “un-order,” governed not by China or the United States but by no one at all. Are states responding quickly enough? Leonard, who is the director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, joins FP Live’s Ravi Agrawal to explore how policymakers should adjust.
Highlighted moments
the only things that are off the table are things that countries don't think that they can do. That's the limit of what's happening.
“they want to make sure that they don't go down that path. And then they also look at what happened to other empires that overextend themselves. And they are very clear that they don't necessarily want to take on the burdens of acting as the upholder of a global system.”
“what seemed to matter more than the international law was how far their drones and their missiles could reach. And they just went after anyone that they could.”
Transcript
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