Episode 992: iOS 27 and macOS 27 first impressions

0:00unscripted and unfiltered unafraid welcome to the macro podcast my name is michael simon and i am joined by my colleague jason cross good morning and our producer roman loyola ahoy there this is episode number 992 i changed that right yeah okay and and today we're going to talk about ios 27 well all the 27s but but it'll be dominated by ios 27 um the public bid is they landed last week

0:35um so we're going to talk about our experiences with it what we like what we don't like what we want what we don't want what works what doesn't work you know all the stuff that we'll uh should you install it hey should right should you install it's a little bit of advice in there too as well and um yeah well uh that we'll do this week in apple history and close with our comment corner speaking of comments you can contact us through blue sky facebook threads search for macworld look for the blue mouse logo send us an email to podcast at macworld.com send us a personal email

1:06comment under a video comment under a post get us your thoughts and we will talk about them on a future show but first so before the ios 27 stuff um this broke like like an hour ago or two hours ago something it's what is it so it's 115 on the east coast yeah like like two hours ago uh mark herman of bloomberg reported that apple is going to launch a new um hardware upgrade program next week that covers like everything itself um max ipads apple watches i think it's just i think it's just those

1:39four things i don't think it's any yeah i don't think it's like airpods or anything like that and at the price level that they're at i don't think it is i don't because yeah if you look at what's exempted anyway we'll get into it yeah right so as jason just said like so you're going to basically be able to buy so the the current iphone upgrade program allows you to get an iphone 17 or ii 17 pro pay for it for 24 months at the 12 months of payments you can upgrade to a new one if you want or you can pay it out that's that's basically coming to everything else so according to the report

2:13you'll be able to get um an ipad for example for 24 months a mac for 36 months um wait ipads are 36 ipads was 36 too oh they both were yeah and then uh iphone iphone and apple watch are 12 24 so he doesn't quite get into specific specifics presumably you'll be able to upgrade after like half of those payments so i assume 18 for the for the mac and ipad and 12 for the um iphone and apple watch it's 12 now

2:45for the iphone but that's all we have yeah but there's but that programs the iphone upgrade program is a little different you pay the full price of the phone um and this is more like the leasing programs that the u.s carriers have where um at the end of 24 months you don't own the phone you you can pay it out to own it or you can return it to apple or you can keep paying your monthly thing and get a new one get a get a the newest model or whatever um so yeah i don't know if they're going to have the

3:18upgrade in the after 12 months thing but when your term is called you can just keep paying it's called yeah because when your program yeah because when your term is up you just keep subscribing so you're saying that let's say a macbook costs three thousand dollars right oh we'll say 3600 so math is easy um so instead of paying 100 a month it's going to be like 60 a month or whatever right and you'll pay a certain percentage of it within three years and then right at the end of that three-year cycle

3:54you'll say okay i want a new one or i want to keep this one like kind of like a more like a car lease very much like a car lease in fact i think germian even says that in his article but um yeah the idea with these upgrade programs is uh that instead of like let's take let's say you're buying a 1200 iphone pro max or something right so uh that would be 50 a month on one of these like no interest lease sort of things um but that's just a no interest purchase and what they would with the

4:30old program was is you'd pay 50 a month but after 12 months you could upgrade it to a new one and start a new 24 month cycle right you know this is more like after you just you it's not gonna be 50 a month it's gonna be well they estimate it's gonna have a 600 resale value or whatever at the end so instead you're gonna end up paying 25 or 30 a month instead of 50 beyond and then after and after 24 months you're gonna they'll say well you can you can pay us 300 and own it you can send it

5:01back to us or you can just keep paying your 25 a month and get this new phone you know which is we'll just yeah i mean that so that's the appeal of like an automobile lease and that yeah you might want to keep the car if you really really like it after three years but you know the value has depreciated and there's a payment there's a payment involved right you can buy it out of the lease but the lease payments are a lot less than the purchase payments would be right if you were financing to purchase it this is kind of the same thing uh it will replace the iphone upgrade program

5:35though they're going to get rid of that right they already have in like the uk right and it's but it's in a few other countries it's in like u.s canada and whatever yeah it's definitely in the u.s because um they've had it for for a while and yeah so the iphone upgrade program is basically you buy an iphone or you choose an iphone you you choose apple care to go with it well you don't choose it but you you have to get apple care to go with it because apple's taking your device back for the most part at the 12 payments you can send it back to apple and they'll send you a new one and you'll just start playing whatever that one is could be less could be more it could be the same

6:08you know but yeah this so this is i i i was i i misunderstood it so this is a completely different situation it's a different setup yeah so it kind of we don't know all the details though right like we don't we don't have like how much what are the payments actually going to be what are all the fine print what does it cost to buy it at the end of your term like whatever but we do know it's it's iphones and apple watches and macs and ipads which is more things yeah everything so uh entry-level devices aren't included german reports so the

6:42macbook neo iphone 16 he doesn't mention the 17e which right uh is not included in the iphone upgrade program i i checked so we don't know about that but watch se yeah so um this is supposed to launch july 31st we've heard rumors about this for a long time oh wait is it it's kind of that's what that's i thought it said i thought it said the 28th or they're going to announce it on the 28th yeah okay german says that the service is planned to launch july 28th it's it's it comes on the heels of a

7:17massive price increase across basically everything except iphones and apple watches and you know i think it's going to make it a lot friendlier for people to get in the door for particularly when it comes to macs because some of those are you know those mac pros yeah like four or five thousand so yeah yeah it's two or three for like it's just a decent for a base model like yeah like base model plus a little extra storage or whatever is still like crazy expensive so yeah so what you know we'll see um they're going to be using clarna which is the that buy now pay later service i i found it to

7:54be a little strange that they're not using their own like i guess it'll be built into the apple card but they can't limit it to the apple cards they want people to use it if they don't want to you know sign up for a new credit card so it's going to be through that other service there's a whole bunch of hoops you have to jump through in order to provide what is essentially a loan to people like as a financial services company that apple doesn't want to do which is why they don't bankroll their own credit card right it was golden sacks and now wait who is it now did they did they change

8:25chase i think the chase if they didn't did i think chase did yeah so they don't apple really doesn't want to be a bank at all and they need a bank for this and clarna basically is so it's a financial services lending swedish company something and they must be thrilled because like this is a huge boon for their their stock shot up um 11 or something which is pretty big that's apples apples did it move because you know is this going to really sell a lot more devices i don't know i do know that this fall

9:00is looking like an expensive fall it's going to be iphones are probably going to go up in price the cheapest the the entry the regular models aren't going to be on sale at all so it's just going be pros and they're going to be launching like the ultra you know so this is going to be like a real expensive fall so i think this is gonna they're going to come out with and you can get it for just 80 a month you know that's the thing especially with the with the folding iphone like it's that teaser rate which is it's not really a teaser rate but you know you don't realize that it's not yours

9:33and if you do want to own it you know i i least i've i've i've leased cars right for i don't know 25 years whatever it is and people always say to me like well you like like it's like it's not your car i'm like well i mean okay i guess but i also don't have to deal with for it to be right i'm not paying a full price for what it is i don't have to deal with like all the maintenance and the headaches and things that that that that go along with that so yeah like there are benefits to leasing the obvious downgrade is that you're paying apple forever if you do if you don't

10:05choose to buy it and it's not yours and if it doesn't come with apple care i assume you'll be able to add it on but if it doesn't and you break it you're responsible for right it's just like if you crash your car like like like you know honda's not that is that's the other gotcha is that german says it doesn't come with apple care plus and that so that and the cheap models aren't and it's because the cheap models aren't like the entry-level ipad and stuff aren't included i think that's also why you're not seeing any of the accessories there's no airpods or anything like that and there's nothing

10:36like vision pro where they don't have a regular upgrade cadence that they know in two years three years whatever there's gonna be a new model for you whatever vision pro is an interesting one i wonder if if if not this this time if they edit down the line once it becomes like a viable thing that people want yeah it has to become something that it where people are gonna know that in two years or three years or whatever right there's a new one there's there's a new model it's probably two models newer but you know so when they get into a cadence with that kind of thing and they may never because

11:10they keep changing what it's going to be every every time you turn around it's like no it's going to be glasses now no it's not going to be vr it's going to be smart glasses and then vr and then no we're putting cameras into airpods instead like yeah so it's kind of every product that they have like regular yearly upgrades for that cost at least four or five hundred dollars right right more than five hundred dollars yeah that's kind of like they're almost like that it's like it's like a thousand dollars because the neo starts at six and seven and that's not included yeah so yeah like

11:44but a 17e presumably is so that's probably the cheapest that's a good thing or an ipad air like those are i tell you what this will be another show but that ipad air is is so not worth buying for eight hundred dollars or whatever no not now it used to be the sweet spot but yeah i was the one like oh yeah don't don't get a base model get an ipad all right we're way off course here but um i don't i don't hate this this this move like you know if you want a new macbook and it's a

12:15little out of your price range and i don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with with what apple's doing here no it's an option it's good to get it from apple directly because this kind of stuff has been off offered through carriers but just for iphones but then you're locked to a carrier and all this you know um so i think it's a good idea i don't think it's bad but of course we got to see in a week we'll come back and we'll see what the actual prices look like right and go oh well yeah the devil will be in the the proof of the whatever whatever that saying is is in is in the

12:51details devil's in the details yeah that was in the flowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the cfo sees them that's bull spend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions i remember telling my boss it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow yeah it it wasn't cut the bull spend linkedin lets you target by company job title and more advertise on linkedin spend 250 on your first campaign and get a 250 credit go to linkedin.com

13:21slash campaign terms and conditions apply hear that that's now crispy mccrispy strips meeting creamy caesar sauce sounds extra crispy caesar sauce at mcdonald's for a limited time if you choose to participate in the upgrade program you know what roman i'm gonna blame you for this terrible transition i actually wrote this down i don't i don't i don't like it roman's over there not saying you're doing anything like it's like i'm gonna blame you for this

13:55that's what i'm here for i always try to think about what roman would how roman would get from one section to the next oh wait so what i wrote is imaginary mental i am i'm blaming roman for getting into my head so what i wrote was if you're going to be participating in the upgrade program you'll be getting devices that will soon have os 27 which is fine okay but it just didn't seem natural as i started reading it roman would have done it in and with his with his with his natural cadence and it would have sounded organic and spontaneous and mine just sounded scripted and i

14:29don't like it so roman that this is your fault however what i said is true you'll be getting on mac always 27 ipad always 27 on on on you know all these devices if they're not installed already they'll obviously be ready to upgrade to it and um you can test all that stuff out now well you could have before i don't let's talk a bit about the beta program i hate that apple allows everyone to sign up for the developer beta and the public beta like it should be restricted to it should be

15:03restricted to developers it it well it kind of is but like how are you going to prove you're a developer right right you're well do you use that to pay it it used to be a hundred dollars to be in the developer program no matter what you did with it yeah right now the it's free to be in the developer program and it's a hundred dollars when you want to publish your right right which makes a lot of sense and it's very fair but it also means that it's very very easy to be in the developer beta as literally anybody it's almost as easy as it is to just go to the public beta sign up site and sign

15:39up it's it's it's hardly there's like one other little form you have to fill out right it says like i promise i will not violate the developer terms checkbox you know and if you ever signed up for a developer account it's in your beta settings like you'll see public beta developer beta and you just click the one you want you just click i think apple should restrict developer betas to people who pay the 99 because they're the one who's publishing an app and they're the ones who need it that's what i think they used to anyway anyway you can get the public beta or the developer beta now

16:12and i hadn't installed the developer beta and i just did it like literally yesterday i installed the public beta so i guess i got three jason is that developer because i know a new one came out yesterday the fourth beta just came out yesterday and but that's not the public beta that uh all right when the public beta came out last week it was the same build as developer beta 3 which was about a week

16:42older at the time so developer beta 4 came out yesterday and we'll probably get put that same build will get pushed out to the public people today so you'll probably get public update last week so we're on beta 4 they no longer call them separate numbers they never say this is public beta 2 they have the same build number and all that stuff they just pushed out to a different group of people so we're on we're on beta 4 you probably have beta 3 i do unless you go if you refresh your phone right now it'd probably tell you there's one available i bet it's not a bad idea even if you

17:14have access to developer beta if you're not a developer to kind of wait till this time yeah because the first couple of betas are usually pretty rough yeah i gotta tell you i'm pretty impressed with this one i forgot that i updated to iowa's 27 this morning when i woke up i was like wait what the hell is this i was looking at the at the weather oh it's a little bit differently i'm like what wait what happened to the weather like oh i upgraded it's really stable and it feels completely and totally rock solid it uh it is you will over the days you will start to notice

17:46little things here and okay like and not a big deal things i haven't run into any showstoppers we always say and i recommend this if you need your phone for something critically important like this is how i get two-factor authentications on my work which i do or this is my car key and whatever then maybe have another device handy that has that on it or or install it on another device like if it's your only device and it's mission critical for your life yeah maybe don't but that

18:22said i have because i've got other phones as i i don't have another phone and and i did it and and uh and it's been all my authenticators and my phone key for my car and all that stuff has been working just fine yep um i want to ask since you've got like a half a day with it you're like you're you're fresh with new with it do you immediately notice other other than like the big siri change or something is there something do you immediately notice like wow this is faster or wow this is

18:52whatever um not really it is it it's it's not buggy i mean i have the i have the air so it was pretty fast to begin with i'm curious to see how the battery let me see so right now i have about 60 that that's about the same is it still is it still indexing it's still indexing yeah okay so i'll have to check that once that's done that that could be a few days keep it plugged in a lot yeah it says like plugged in yeah i have to so the air you know when i use it

19:26not a lot a lot but when i use it like i'll have to pop it on a charger at some point for 10 minutes just to get through the day okay as far as the speed i never had a problem with the speed of the air i mean it has the the a19 pro and all that you know it's it's it's it's fast this doesn't feel any less the one thing i did notice so you you start the thing up and you get you get that liquid glass slider to start like it pops up if you want yeah i i wanted it

19:58to be more transparent than i i'm able to go like i like the first the very first liquid glass implementation was almost like a window and now it's like a little bit of a dirty window like i wish they would go further and make it more transparent but um the the slider was was cool um it's a good idea because some people would just throw it all the way to the right and they don't want it at all like like that's it that's that's neat um right almost totally opaque you can go yeah yeah yeah which is which is good like that i think that's a good change at some point i'm sure

20:34they'll go back to liquid glass or everybody but for now it's fine um i i don't really notice a speed or or anything optimized but again i don't i have a brand new phones or close to brand new yeah so i noticed even on a new phone i noticed certain things just popping up faster like certain times you launch an app like or you you you look for you know you pop open photos and you're you open a gallery or something like some of these things just like snap they weren't ever slow but you just

21:07notice a little more immediacy like that feel of immediacy um it definitely doesn't feel like a beta like you don't not in the slightest yeah like i said i forget you don't get those yeah um there's just a bunch of little ui things that i appreciate there's like like you said they they they said that here's the 500 big old slide like 500 little improvements you know and stuff like that you still you notice those more than you notice any big major thing like as you use it you're like you'll you'll be

21:40in some menu and like oh they put that there that's nice you know right or like you you were just able to open your settings and see that your phone is indexing they change the verbiage to optimizing whatever but like that used to be a real pain to see if that's happening right now they just like oh pop open settings it's right there and they let people um uh my son has a baseball game later today and it's supposed to rain here well it is raining so like i checked the weather out this

22:11morning and it's really nice like there's all these new little doodads and precipitation by hour that you can look at and there's like a little highlights thing at the top it's it's it's good like it seems to be they're they're doing all the um dark sky stuff i guess or a little more of the dark sky most of that stuff was in the old one but you had to dig in to like get to it right and now they surfaced into this nice little like swipey you swipe between these nice charts they made it look good yeah there's some stuff like that there's some nice little things like a little tweaks in apple

22:43music and things like that you know i literally just got a notification that my son's game was canceled that's that's hilarious like as i was because i was saying that i gave him yeah but yeah so i i like that um i signed up for up for the new siri um i i had to seek it out maybe i missed it chasing oh right you don't ask me like it didn't ask if i want to sign up for the new siri in the the swipey things at the beginning and um so i had to go to the settings yeah i don't think it does

23:14join join the i i maybe because it's beta but so i had to join the waitlist the waitlist literally took like five minutes like it was almost instantaneous that i got i got the notification yeah it was very fast almost to the point where it's like why bother having one but i guess when there's 10 million people requesting it's different yeah when it's when they when this launches on september whatever yeah there's gonna be a lot of people um so yeah i got it quickly much have you tried it yeah i i so i did i did one thing

23:46and i let me tell you it's pretty damn cool so i literally asked um what's my son's baseball schedule this week now i don't have anything set up nothing like i have it's not in your calendar not in my calendar so they use this this app called game changer and it collects all the teams that he's ever been on and his messages and stuff but i wanted to see if it could understand anything and it took about 20 seconds and this is the

24:19message i got back i i took a screenshot because i was so impressed i couldn't find any upcoming baseball games on your calendar however based on your recent messages it looks like you may have games scheduled in trumbull and milford this week to make up for recent cancellations okay that is 100 accurate not text but that's what that's within that game changer app it hasn't i i didn't text any there's there's no there's a messaging in your messages app nothing does it does it does that reply from siri when you expand it does it have links to where it got the data

24:52because usually if it's referring to a message or something it'll have you can tap and jump i didn't i didn't do that i just i just read it you can open you can open the siri app and that's the other thing open the siri app and you get all these history on all these oh hey there it is one of the things i appreciate kind of most is all right wait hold on wait wait wait before we before we go so it says i found recent conversations about your son's baseball schedule okay make up games you mentioned needing to travel to trumbull and milford this week to get games in before the

25:25season ends weather delays there was rain expected on tuesday and wednesday which might affect the schedule recent play gay pitch well recently throwing 24 pitches over two innings before a rain delay on saturday that's insane was that like that's from your how the hell does it know that was that from your messages app or emails oh wait it says messages oh i do oh it is messages okay so so it so i must have told somebody that it yeah so it'll look at your messages and email to get that stuff and get that is crazy so if it was all stuck within that app then um it wouldn't be able to do it now

26:00but there are frameworks for that app developer if they want siri to be able to to troll those sort of schedule and maps and stuff they can update their app and they can put in the hooks to allow that to happen but i don't think that's still done that yet that's super impressive even even just it is that's a lot of inferring and figuring out like what i'm talking about it's not like i typed i am going to milford like it understood so much context there and broken apart amongst replies and various

26:36people um that is incredibly impressive and if you were gonna find it what a pain in the butt to go like right well who did i text and right scroll back and whatever it's it's super it's super handy yeah um yeah so that was that was i i thought i was getting it through i guess i did mention that i'm going to you know what it was probably um i arranged a ride with one of the other um kids dads i bet it took from that and and inferred that i'm going to tremble and the reason why it was because of a rain

27:09delay and it's going to rain but anyway um super impressive and it only took like literally like 15 to 20 seconds maybe not even that long it was very fast yeah the later betas have sped up a lot if you uh if you use siri for any smart home stuff i don't know if you use it to turn on lights or set timers or anything like that yeah i have all that stuff yeah that that has gotten much faster the early betas were annoyingly slow at that and the on kind of the latest beta it's pretty it's pretty much like

27:42instant like it used to be some other you something you some other stuff you should try is okay try some of the visual intelligence stuff try siri in the camera app and try to go beyond saying like what is this you you can do that you find a weird spider and go like what is this or whatever you know that that they've been able to do that before you can still do that but try to have it do something with what you're taking a picture of like you know like uh if you take a picture of uh if there's a

28:14flower in your backyard or something and and you take a picture of instead of just going like what is this try taking a picture and saying something like what time of year do these bloom where i live okay you know uh you know try ask try to ask it stuff that requires it not just knowing what it is but looking up information about it and using information things like where you live and stuff like that do you have surprised how clever it is about like incorporating all those things if you ask it do you have to take the photo first or can i just like point it at something and ask

28:48and it like no you've got to hit the shutter you gotta like before you have to hit the shutter it's not like a live camera window thing i bet that's coming but yeah i would assume and i also gotta try all that um that photo like the cleanup and the reframe stuff um i haven't i haven't played around with that i'm curious that's kind of that's kind of neat but i i kind of to me it feels like a toy it's like a cool toy but it's a toy so i gotta try out the airpods custom custom equalizer stuff

29:18yeah which i i does that work with what do i have i think i have yeah i have i have the pro too so it'll it'll allow oh yeah yeah with that yeah yeah yep um yeah i mean that is that's one of those things that's it's great to have people i've been asking forever it's not surprising it works like it's a parametric eq works how our eq works it's it's you don't make the bass or the trouble yeah it's just you didn't have it you couldn't do it before you just couldn't do it before yeah yeah um yeah the the my my suggestion with siri is like like the one that you asked try to ask

29:56things that aren't just like i'm so used to giving it a prompt that's almost like a computer program like i have to think how do i format my question to get the one piece of data that i want and now you can just like accept that it will understand context or that you don't have to specifically name specific stuff you can you know and that's just you know that's pretty impressive i just want to bring up real quick that so that thing i was talking about before with the baseball stuff i i asked

30:28about my son's baseball game so it also knew like it figured out pretty quickly maybe it knew already who my son was yeah what applies to him because i don't have like i just have you know my son's name is gabriel i just have gabe in my contact i don't say like my son so it yeah who i was talking about ask it just say who's my son and just see what it says all right and see if it knows that way um wait hold on i'm gonna do this before you you continue yeah i'm on knowledge who is my son

31:05all right it's thinking i like the little the little orby thing the little animation so this is funny it says i couldn't find a relationship for son in your contact card if you'd like you can create one in the contacts app okay yet when i asked it about my son's baseball game it totally knew who i was talking about well it could also just be like do you have do you have other family members with baseball games or other baseball games you're referring to i don't just be like that's the only baseball game and you could have said my daughter's baseball game and and it would have

31:40gotten the same thing right like that's the only baseball games it's talking about yeah i think for most relationships it looks at the relationship field in contacts yeah yeah but um it doesn't infer from but maybe it infers from messages if you're asking other things as well maybe yeah and like particular familiarity and yeah yeah yeah anyway it does a lot of cool stuff it's quite impressive yeah you'll find a lot of things where you're just like really it couldn't do that or whatever

32:13there's there's there's frustrating limitations but also coming from the old siri you're like oh wow wow i'll actually use this this is good that's the biggest hurdle for me is i'm so trained not to use it is that now i gotta like when i need to like like this i mean i knew the answer to this question but normally i would go into my son's schedule look at the thing and i wouldn't even consider asking siri because it would have no idea right so now i have to retrain my work self process

32:46self to say like you know what i have a digital assistant on this device that's going to actually be able to get this answer and i have to remember to ask it i was walking uh i was out walking the dog and i saw on the back of somebody's car i saw a thing that was written out in the you know the nato phonetic alphabet you know alpha bravo charlie delta sure yeah tango like all those things it was a phrase written out in that and i didn't understand what it was so i just told siri i'm

33:19not i'm not going to say it all here because it ends up being a curse thing so but i'm gonna i i just said siri i was i saw on the back of the car this what could that be referring to and it said oh that's the nato phonetic alphabet for these letters which which i thought it would get that but it said for these for these letters and that's a cultural reference to this it's often used you know to mean this other thing you know that's cool like if you said whiskey tango foxtrot

33:52that would be oh it's the nato phonetic alphabet for for wtf right which culturally means what the you know it was like that and but it got all that and i'm good that's cool could it can you imagine trying to ask siri that before like at all like getting anything it was something i found on the internet exactly and it would not be relevant it would be totally wrong anyway so yeah i'm going to use that for the next vanity fate plate that i see that i don't understand and see if it and see if

34:23it can can get it or you can take a picture like you could see one in a picture and go like what's this what's this license plate mean right and and you'll get something and it's the fact that you would get something and you wouldn't get something before is really cool and it it requires if you're like us and have been using siri for like a decade plus now it you have to retrain yourself to go like oh it's actually useful and could tell me things now yeah i wonder how apple's

34:54going to bridge that because like i said like i wasn't prompted to sign up for the new siri if i was a casual iphone user i would just assume it was already on my phone but it's not because it's going to be beta and there's also a wait list and then once you do get it like you have to remember to to use it um it's going to be my assumption is that they'll pop up some sort of card or something like that yeah they're gonna have for you know telling people and there'll be ads and there'll be ads

35:27well there were ads last time and they didn't do anything there'll be ads for the iphone 18 pro but there'll be ads like highlighting this new siri and it'll do all this yeah but we did that already and it didn't it didn't do any of the stuff that that was in right that was all coming soon and it didn't do it but i have to like trust that it'll work this time i just mean in terms of getting uh you know hundreds of millions hundreds of millions of people to know that they can ask actually start talking to siri in a reasonable way yeah uh what do you think about the voice

36:00um i so i don't really care what siri sounds like i generally have it on on silent but okay for whatever reason in my car i swear to you it's different every single time i ask a question i get a different voice sometimes it's like very it's yeah like my car play is like it's always a female voice okay sometimes there's like a like an affect sometimes she's totally disinterested in what i have

36:31to say and she's almost bothered that i'm asking questions it's it's it's funny like every time it's like a little bit different and i'm not i'm not angry at it it's fine but i always wonder like all right is she like like what what what kind of like um mildly irritated voice am i gonna get in my car today because she's never happy that i'm talking to her tomorrow morning is knocking stock your fridge now how about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe or

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37:39bistro.com roman what's your experiences with um you've been using mac os 27 beta do you recommend people installing it how about that we'll start there kind of similar to jason's advice if if you don't you know if you can afford the higher risk of a system crash or something which i have i have not experienced i should be clear about that but it is beta software net risk is there but it's been pretty stable i've been using the siri chatbot a lot uh try to compare it like the results with

38:13chat gpt and claude it's not as good as those two but there are certain questions it does better than others you know it's a work in progress what i love about it is the the that siri on your like you said it's not as good as gemini or claude or whatever or chat gpt it's it's it's surprisingly good but that it has access to all your stuff like mike said like it's going to search your messages and stuff like that and you don't have to go opt into that or install some program and then turn on a bunch of

38:46permissions and all this other stuff like it just does that uh i have to say my favorite feature is kind of a silly one and it's with uh you can now do screen recordings with audio oh so when you do command is it command shift five when you when you get able to do a screen recording before you can do audio you now you can uh there's an option to record the system audio at the same time why did i think that was in there before i don't use that a lot because it should it should be it should have

39:20been because it should have been yeah and i had like done workarounds for it before uh you know for us at work it's very helpful yeah um i don't know how helpful it is in general usage but the stupid thing is it's like my favorite feature because it's like something i've always wanted um so i just wrote an article last week my my mac os tahoe experience has been horrendous is like do you find it to be more snappy responsive you know visually homogenous whatever your whatever words

39:55you want to use there um so there is like an option to modify the um opacity of the of the glass effect so you can you can adjust that so um but like i haven't noticed any performance difference uh for me so it was it was fine for you before yeah tile was fine for me before i had didn't never had the issues that you had with the indexing and stuff like that golden gate's been pretty

40:29stable in terms of that i hate that i have to say golden gate every time you don't you can just say mac os 27 um the i've noticed two things in particular about mac os 27 but besides just like the all the obvious like you said there's a slider whatever but i wasn't having problems before but the two things i noticed was or noticed appreciate is one that siri app that's on there that is cloud synced with your phone and all that other stuff so it is kind of like if you install the

41:02chat gpt or gemini app on all your devices they have a mac app and stuff so you've got i've got a mac app that's all my like siri history and includes my iphone siri history and includes all the responses with photos or whatever i've done or sent and stuff so i've started asking siri something on my phone at some point and a couple days later wanted to go back and sit and get more information or ask it something else and i can pull that up on my mac in the siri app and just continue and i find that to

41:35be actually very useful yeah especially since siri does a really good job now and you could never do this before but you can do things like upload documents to it and stuff and say right you know like analyze this yeah or find me this or you can upload here's a here's a neat trick you can do with all these llms upload a the pdf of the manual for some appliance or whatever you have and then just ask it how to fix the problem you're having that's all what this error those things are such a pain to

42:07navigate sometimes they're a pain to navigate you're like error code e22 what is that just just toss it your pdf and like i actually had that when you do that it remembers and you can answer you can reference it like weeks later and it'll know because i don't know oh uh i i don't know because it won't necessarily automatically jump back to some previous conversation okay but you can open that conversation right right in and ask and it will continue where you were okay i've done that before

42:38that's another just good siri question i had some error code on one of my appliances and i just said hey siri i have a bosch 800 dishwasher and it's doing this what does that mean and then it just looks it just looks up on the internet and gave me the answer old siri would have gone i found some information on the web and then give me like four links that have nothing to do with it i just got a real answer you know just like in words uh anyways the second thing that mac os is doing really

43:09well now is it has had for years real problems with smb uh shares with network shared drives like keeping connections dropping connections not working right you got to restart it you have to restart smb whatever it's been very solid on can you can you tell uh all the people who don't know what smb is what that means i forget what it stands for oh you don't know because i don't know either i forget what the i forget what the acronym is but it is a um decades old server message block

43:46okay yeah it's a decades old protocol for sharing network drives okay with between computers and devices and it's gone through several updates they're on smb 4 3.1 or some protocol change or whatever but it's just how it's how if you wanted to access a folder on your pc or on your nas drive or something like that you would share it with smb right um and that's how you like mount network

44:18drives on devices uh like your mac or your pc and and i have a nas and it was sometimes a pain or i want to grab something from my windows computer and it was like ah such a pain to connect sometimes it wouldn't find it i'm like no this is the right address what are you doing like you know i had it open and because i closed my mac and now i opened it again it won't find it and i have to refresh it or i have to disconnect and reconnect or i have to restart my whole mac golden gate's just been really solid it's been really good with shared folders and it's been such a relief because i was

44:54i can't tell you how many years i kept thinking i had something set up wrong where you have any insight as to how that got fixed no i think it's just one of the like slide of 500 things that they're like we're fixing all this garbage that you guys have been complaining about forever i think it's on i think it's on there but i've noticed it it's been working a lot better for me and i've been a lot happier with it so that and just the idea that like as a built-in default you can do this with other llms but as a

45:27built-in default there's this shared siri history you can open an app and it's all your siri requests from and that's on all your devices apple watch too right yeah it's like clouded it's cloud synced you know yeah so it's everywhere yeah i mean it's pretty neat i just used it for that one thing jason asked me like how did it know that question that i asked and i was like well i don't know he's like oh no we'll go into the app so you know you open the app but everything's there well in my case one thing was there but it was you know i was able to see like like how it reasoned and and what it um what it what i wonder how many people are going to be able to like know that's there

46:03like there's another thing like that's not something that we've been trained to do with siri once we asked it something and we end the conversation it's gone into the ether now it's there's a record of it siri used to be able to do things like show you a particular photos or something like that with it we're within like very narrow constraints like show me pictures of this person but you had to have that person like mark or whatever i the other day i asked it um show me all i take a lot of screenshots so it's a problem so i just said hey show me all my all my photos from the

46:35last week excluding screenshots and videos and it was just like here you go boop and there's a link you can click to show like all 36 photos or whatever and i was like that's exactly thanks that's exactly i could do this some other way i could do this a little slower way opening photos and doing whatever but this was easy we should collect fun siri tricks and then when this goes wide in september just be like here's all that here's all the cool things you should try doing with siri

47:08yeah let's do it because there's a lot of stuff take a note of it because like you said uh it you have to train yourself to like you you've trained yourself over all these years to not even bother trying with siri for with all these things it's like no no you can do that now fun siri tricks used to be like knock knock jokes now it's going to be like actual stuff that you're going to want actual useful yeah um yeah so you can try out public beta um two probably one or two and it'll be

47:40available in what about less than two months jeez we're ready almost the end of end of july so uh uh it's moving right along okay roman this week in apple history i i i i have app store written down but that was last week so i this is a surprise to me so i don't remember what it is so uh on this week in apple history on july 21st 1999 1999 so 27 years ago apple released the ibook

48:13at mac world expo in new york yeah um that was a year after the i mac well that was a year after the i mac yes so i mac became very popular so apple said hey we should come out with a laptop that looks like the i mac and that's that was the i book it was awesome it was awesome it was also kind of soundly made fun of because it looked people said it looked like a compact like a little bit ladies compact like because it's very rounded or clamshell like it had all those things that was

48:47the first one with built-in wi-fi though right right airport yeah yeah they called it the card there was a little card or something they had to put you had to put in it yeah oh yeah so there was a card slot underneath the keyboard so you had to remove the keyboard then you would put the card slot in uh those that was also the time when you could actually upgrade the ram on the uh oh yeah ibook because they they used ram slots and that built in ram and so you could upgrade to ram i don't remember

49:19if apple officially if clamshell was an official name or if that was kind of just like uh i don't think that wasn't i don't think it was addressed as clamshell by apple everyone else kind of called it a clamshell yeah i mean it kind of looked like a clam that was just it like clamshells what they called anything that folded this way before this but this one actually looked like a clam like because it was all rounded and stuff and it yeah it had a rounded shape i remember and i can't remember i

49:49couldn't find it like um some review reviewer called reviewer called it a fisher price laptop yeah it was because it looked like a toy yeah it did but um just real quick the specs 300 megahertz power pcg3 32 megabytes of ram megabytes of rim uh 3.2 gigabyte hard drive and 12 inch um lcd screen and a cost anyone remember because i was wrong 29.99 no you're 29.99 are you nuts

50:19no i'm making it up well i have it i have it written down so i'll guess 15.99 that's a good guess robin yeah i i thought it was 12.99 it was 15.99 okay so more than the iMac the desktop yeah yeah it's got a battery and all that stuff sure sure but 15.99 is a lot for as you say a play school laptop it wasn't like a professional thing you

50:49could bring to the office it was a toy it looked like a toy but yeah it set the stage for all of this you know well they still had power books you know right yeah of course they were they were they were more expensive this was like yeah but that was your office professional yeah right this was their consumer this was the famous four square grid of you know yeah those were i don't remember for sure but i think they were like 22.99 and up like they were expensive yeah yeah and then two

51:21years later the iBook evolved into a more traditional look yeah it was white yeah i had one of those i never had the the green one or whatever i i did have the the the white boxy one the g4 wasn't it it was a g4 yeah i think so yeah yeah um yeah so that was 27 years ago i never actually had put my hands on that particular machine i wasn't at a mac publication i was at a i was at a startup at the time so i i

51:54didn't i didn't actually use this particular laptop uh we we learned before the show that that roman got a dragon tattoo i had to assume it was around this time that he was at a startup so yeah no i did not i did not i took the dragon tattoo seven years no uh eight years before so yeah so yeah so uh 27 years ago that would have been during the first sort of dot-com bubble of startups

52:27here's what you're talking about yeah because it was 1999 and there used to be a macworld expo show in new york during the summer there was no wwdc show at the time right it was like a developer convention like yeah apple didn't even really go in at least not the way they do it now um yeah i went to that new york show a few times it was it was cool you know steve jobs did his keynote and they would announce something new and the the uh power mac g4 cube was announced there the the 17 inch

53:04imac g4 was announced there it was a big show until you know they just pulled out all that um completely it's funny to think how beholden apple used to be to these uh trade shows well our trade show that yeah they they they were like four of them throughout the year yeah they would still never ever go to cest right never right they would never go to cest yeah well yeah they would never be officially at cest so and you know not just like the the cadence but having to show up to these shows

53:38three or four times a year with something because everybody expected them to come out with it wasn't always you know the the new ibook but they had to have something to for people to see and to touch and steve jobs basically he's like you know what we're not like no more we can't do this anymore like it's just the pace of it is just too much uh so yeah so that the ibook if you are interested in more information the ibook we have our original review posted to the website we'll have a link in the show notes and it was written by david poke yeah who at the time was a columnist for mac world and

54:17uh before he before he hit it big he would write regularly for mac world and he wrote the ibook review so you can buy a used one on on ebay for like 500 books i'm just i'm looking at it now non-operational i would assume uh i don't know i mean 500 that seems like a lot well it's it's a piece of history roman yeah for something when it's that old it's like that's a lot for a non-operational one and it's dirt cheap for one that works right you say i don't they don't

54:50really say they don't work i assume they work i mean they gotta run the airport card yeah this one this one i'm looking at has okay it has uh wait maybe not i'm looking at the the power supply which was that funky little circular thing um has two two two mice i don't i guess a game with did it come with the mouse roman do you have any idea i don't remember if it came with the mouse and it looks like hell but it doesn't say it doesn't work oh no i there's a picture of it with with it on it's

55:20right and um looks like there you go some early version of os 10 so so it does work but you said it does it was uh it looks like hell so well it's all discolored and discreet yeah like the the there's like splintering around the apple logo for the um underneath the screen but you know it works it's funny to look at these things now this thing looks like it's ancient but at the time it is 27 years is a really long time especially a park here's one for 500 bucks so yeah they're people i don't know if

55:53they're buying them but people are selling them yeah i'm the same guy who buys his clothes on slick deals well that's a throwback to last week's episode yes because uh speaking of uh all right that was a bad segue i was just saying now let's move on to comic quarter i was trying to create a segue to comic quarter for that from that but nope i'll take i'll take responsibility for that that's that mike's in my head now mike is speaking of my head you're off your game because of me

56:29uh so we got a couple of very long emails from a couple of uh podcast listeners so we're gonna i'm not gonna read the whole emails i'll just i'll pull out some uh points from those emails and respond to them uh david h wrote an email and he said that i am not running any of the betas i and i am hoping apple has fixed some of the things i feel are worthy of fixing and made some changes to unify the uis between the os's especially since apple has promoted a new os as mostly

57:03correcting issues i i'm not sure that the unification of some of the ui elements is there there are a little bit of smaller fixes but yeah uh david had some examples in his in his particular email and as far as i i know some of those issues that he pointed out are still there i don't know if they're ever going to be fixed and i think a lot of it has to do with apple's approach towards while they want to unify the os's they also have unique approach they also believe that certain

57:40that you know certain elements of ios and mac os have different approaches if that makes sense right they need to they need to look and work differently yeah right so well can you can you can you read off some of them like what is he specifically yeah all right so for example um in the maps app for the mac adding a con adding to contacts is in the three dot icon while on an iphone you need to use the share sheet oh yeah okay i get it yeah i don't disagree that apple is

58:18fundamentally sees those menus as different on a mac and different on the on the iphone and has to do with like proximity to your finger and how you're interacting with it and but i also understand what he's saying in that if you use one device and you have an expectation of a of a certain menu to do something and then on the other device it's different like i get the complaint yeah yeah and and as far as like no that's still that way like it's still the three dot menu

58:49right and the even though maps is updated and there's some changes and stuff um there's no like three dot menu when you open a location on an iphone all there is the share sheet and you know this list of thing so yeah some of those things i don't think that they're yeah i don't think all those things are touched up and unified i do think they've touched up and added a lot of nice little details in a lot of places like when you're using find my and you look at a person it used to be just

59:20very basic and now they have things underneath like how far away they are by car you know like add to contacts or or call this person or whatever like they get a better tab like when you look at those things like on a mac or stuff so yeah they've just little little touch-ups to the interfaces that i appreciate but i think some of this the specific things brought up about how the inconsistencies of the different operating systems i don't i don't think are significantly different in os 27 sorry david hey jason's right the the findman app is pretty cool yeah it's just like a little thing

59:59it's a little the card has a couple little more information on it that looks nice yeah you know you'll discover a lot of those things as you go through little things that aren't major changes they're not going to make a commercial about or anything but you're like oh that's nice there's a lot of oh that's nice like throughout the operating systems but i think that most of the things that david talked about in his email are still going to be that way yeah uh george h wrote a long email

1:00:30george is a semi-retired professional engineer it has a long history with the mac and apple and he had a bunch of comments about apple softer that he wanted to get off his chest um like i said he his email was a pretty lengthy and we don't have time to cover everything but here's some um i i guess highlights or i guess stuff that i decided to pull out of his email yeah uh so one of the things he wrote

1:01:00yeah he one of the things he wrote is there is no joy in the music app just let me play my own stuff make it easy to buy my own stuff not rent it uh i pulled out that particular comment because i kind of agree with him but it's me for me it's more about the ui than it is about uh the content i i don't i have tried to de to stay devoted to apple music and not use spotify but spotify just has a better ui

1:01:35i'm completely the opposite i think the apple music's ui is fantastic i love it and uh and ios 27 it's it's it's really nice um i i do subscribe to apple music but i feel like like you can still buy songs and you can still you can't yes you can't default yeah it's so if you don't subscribe so i i don't i don't i don't remember what it looks like when when you don't subscribe like it's always pushing

1:02:06like that the subscription stuff in your face it doesn't just default to your library and go to itunes like it's still telling you to subscribe subscribe subscribe it is hard to like browse for and find and purchase tracks that you want to purchase um it really is geared as a streaming app and that's and i i understand there are a lot of people who are especially of sort of like george's age who's like remembers ripping cds and all that stuff and they kind of want the app to

1:02:39better suit that they're that that's how they want to do their music stuff but i hate to tell you that the world's moved on yeah that's like like streaming one like it we can argue about whether it's better or whatever but but the people clearly preferred it yeah like when spotify and stuff like that started to take off like after and and it it killed the pirate apps first of all but then it because the experience was better but it also killed all those stores like purchasing music just

1:03:14been like this it just nose dived and they really had to buy beats and turn beats music into apple music and i agree that they could do better some better stuff with the interface especially around getting to your playlists and stuff some of that stuff i agree with you roman it's it's better on spotify but ever since they got it so you could swipe your like the album art the main picture to change tracks like you couldn't do that for ages and you could do that on spotify and i would just i would go like i would try all the time and go like oh shoot i have to hit this stupid little

1:03:46button they fixed it yeah i'm more or less happy now another comment george had was what the hell is this liquid glass the ass in capital letters my mac studio is running sonoma because i'm afraid to do any upgrades um sonoma isn't that like wasn't there sequoia and then tahoe yeah he he's he's a couple generations back yeah um and then george wrote my iphone 13 mini we never upgraded george you gotta

1:04:21enter this a little bit later than what is six years ago five years ago four years ago five years ago and finally he wrote apple intelligence all i ever asked for was better voice recognition and stop the autocorrect well you're getting that mac os and ios so yeah we kind of talked about that the autocorrect i'm not sure i haven't um i haven't done enough typing on my iphone so i don't know uh if it's better but the uh the dictation certainly is um i want to know how to be how do i become

1:04:54semi-retired george can you send an email to robin telling me because i want that i i want to be i want to work a little bit but not as much as i do now i do want to mention one thing from uh david's email he mentioned um i hope this changed i was 27 currently when you connect your iphone to charge the dynamic island enlarges to show a large image of the battery without the charging lightning bolt and you have to wait several seconds until the island goes away to check the persistent battery icon in

1:05:26the upper right corner to see if it's really charging or not i just want to show you like here i'm just going to go ahead and plug this right in so you can see how it has changed so it's charging yes and now the dynamic island expands it says charging and it shows the battery with the icon with the percent and then when it goes away you can still see the little persistent charge icon so it is a clear charging indicator and not just pops up the battery although i always

1:05:57thought well if it pops up the battery thing it's charging like it doesn't say charging but like you plugged in a charger and the battery thing popped up that's isn't that your indication i do doesn't it also show the lightning bolt in the battery icon that's the thing that's what i always look for just yeah i know it's sure i mean if it's not charging that thing doesn't pop up and if that thing pops up it is charging but regardless i wanted to show that yes it has changed into an

1:06:30actual message that says charging and shows you the battery percent before it fades away so it is a little more clear that you plugged into something that's actually charging it i guess if you plug into a computer or something where it's may not charge it's just data but i i don't know does that happen i don't know it's something he specifically mentioned that i was able to test out and show so there you go and there's your reason to upgrade them ios 20 yeah that one thing they changed the charging animation for you so uh that does it for comment corner um that does it for this episode

1:07:09of the macro podcast episode 991 uh it's screwed up again wait now it is 92 isn't it 92 92 we got eight more left roman that's like two months we need to figure out uh what we're doing for that like sooner sooner than later yeah um thank you jason thank you and thank you roman and roman's dragon tattoo assuming it's it's it's sentient after after 40 years and thanks to you the audience

1:07:39for tuning in what are we going to do next week where are we uh maybe like some iphone stuff we'll figure it out and we can start talking about um it's getting getting closer yeah maybe we'll do like like a preview of the preview show because there's there's been some rumors lately about um the folding phone and you know stuff like that we'll see uh where am i uh you can subscribe to the macro podcast and a podcast app on spotify youtube at the macro podcast channel or through any other podcast app comments or questions contact us through blue sky facebook thread search

1:08:13for macro look for the blue mouse logo send an email to podcast at macro.com um you know uh a comment under a comment under a uh a video video or or a post send us a personal email and uh we will talk about it on a future show wait hold on oh yeah no that's that's that that's right um and you could join us join us next week where i don't know what we're going to talk about maybe maybe iphones maybe maybe not maybe the iphone upgrade program or the app we'll talk about

1:08:48the latest in the world about it see jace is better at it than i am all we know is we're talking about the latest in the world about um and that next week is roman's last week before he goes on vacation so we will also talk about that because he's taking a cool trip all right see y'all next week

1:09:13so i have a recording now so yeah i have a tattoo on my right shoulder but i got it when i yeah but i got it when i was 19 okay what is it so that's 37 years ago it's a dragon and so it's 37 years ago before you know during the time when tattoos were only for bikers and

1:09:49longshoremen and stuff my sister were you a were you a biker or a longshoreman no i just neither oh i i i wanted to be a biker but i i took motorcycle riding classes and realized that yeah motorcycle wasn't not for me so this is a fascinating look into into roman's history but but my point is my tattoo now is all kind of you know it's 37 years old so it's all blurry and

1:10:21yeah it looks like a 37 year old tattoo it's just like uh you need to get tattoos when you're 60. is it is it big like how big no it's about the size of my palm okay it's not that big what did the dragon signify you just liked it i just liked it yeah yeah you know you don't seem like a like a dragon fantasy guy anymore no i no i'm not a dragon i'm not a fantasy guy i do like dragons but i'm not a i was never into like dnd or game of thrones or anything like that so

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