Has it been three years already? Bonus-to-brain with Clara, Elisa, Imogen, Sönke and Sophie.

Introduction

0:00Hi, and welcome to Kaleidoscience. Here you find answers about cognition that you may or may not have asked yourself. So sit back, relax, and enjoy this week's episode.

0:12Hello and welcome everybody. Today we have an extra special episode, because we don't have a guest today. It's just the five of us, for the first time, talking to you. And we're going to do a little season recap and also give you some information on what's going to happen in the next season, which is already the fourth season. And yeah, if you want some inside information and maybe a little bit more about us, you can stick around.

Fourth Season

0:43I was really hoping for just a button to give a short woohoo when you said the next season will be our fourth season. Because I feel like that's insane. For next year, we need a small cake with a candle. Yeah, it's hard for decades. Yeah. Okay. Also, we kind of come up with these season specials, but we would also be very willing to do what you think is fun. So if you have an idea what you would like to know, or if you would like us to talk about fun facts, knitting projects, our favorite kinds of beer, we're all up for that.

1:26Just comment. Just comment. When you're listening on Spotify, comment or send us a message. Otherwise, you won't know. You can also send us a message on Instagram. Or email. We even have an email, an official podcast email. All of the information on how to reach us can be found in the show notes of the podcast.

Personal Interests

1:45Okay, so let's start. We prepared some questions. Kind of. So all of us have played the welcome game multiple times, and most of the answers are quite static, I would say. But we picked out one question from the welcome game to start this episode.

2:08And yeah, let's start with that.

2:12The question is, what are you most fascinated by? Who wants to start?

2:22I think it's the first time I'm having a really hard time to come up with an answer to this question. If you guys want, I can start, because I already thought about that question. Oh, bad. Yes. Finally, for the first time. One thing I'm fascinated by, which has come up, like, the last couple days, is Treadwives, and, like, how they present themselves on the internet.

2:55Because I'm reading the book called Yesteryear. And I just started reading it, but it's so interesting. And, like, so, I feel like the character is just so well thought out, I'd say. And it's just, like, really fascinating to me how the author is kind of making up the world of this Treadwife, which she is making up her world.

Treadwives

3:27So, yeah, that's something I have been fascinated by the past couple days. Could you repeat the name of the book? Because I didn't get it. Yesteryear. Yesteryear. Oh, yeah. I think I've heard of it. Highly recommend. So far, I'm just, like, on the half of the book right now. But so far, it's quite good. I listened to the audiobook, and it's really good. We should probably link that in the show notes of the episode.

3:57So, I mean, I can go next. Guys, how about you? I'm sorry.

4:02Sönke, what are you most fascinated by?

World Cup

4:08I don't have, I mean, I don't have a book I'm reading right now. So, that's kind of sad. And I don't have, like, a topic I'm really fascinated by. But currently, the World Cup is still ongoing. So, I'm spending quite an amount of time watching sports. And I think that's, like, has captivated me. I'm not sure, like, fascinated is the correct word. But, yeah, it's, like, the one thing that takes up disproportionately much of my time right now.

4:45Fair. What is the team you are rooting for most?

4:52I mean, I don't know. When this will come out, there is only the final left, probably, right? Hopefully, this will come out this Thursday.

5:03But, like... It can also be a team which is already, like, lost.

5:09I mean, just yesterday, because we are recording this on Sunday, the Norwegian team was kicked out of the tournament. But it was, like, very fascinating to see because they have never been this far into the tournament. And they have been on a very steady rise across the last decade in, like, sports in general. So, it was, like, really fascinating to see how their work in the youth has paid off right now. And they are really becoming, like, an actual contender for world titles.

5:41I also love, like, their pre-game thing with the rowing, where they're just, like, all of them sitting down. I think that's pretty amazing because the New Zealand rugby team has kind of the same, when they do the Haka. I think it's called Haka. Where they kind of, I think it's mainly the team and not the people watching. So, it's this community thing where you sync your movement and kind of have this routine to get yourself more excited.

6:16Or, like, in the mood. I think it also kind of improves the performance of the players, at least for rugby, because the Haka is quite impressive. So, it's also, watching it is really impressive in a way of, it seems, not violent, but kind of aggressive. Threatening. And it's kind of pushing yourself or pushing them to kind of play better because it's so superior postures, etc. And I think it's also, like, especially designed to, like, intimidate the opponent who doesn't do a thing beforehand.

6:53I think it comes from a tradition of warriors to kind of do it before going into war, into a fight, to kind of collect or to improve the mental civility, whatever, of the people. I don't want to push it here, but I think that's kind of where the tradition came from originally.

Dream Guests

7:14Do we do, like, a hot potato thing? Because, like, Clara kind of says this to me, and I'm now pointing. Sure. Sophie, what are you most fascinated by right now?

7:28This might be a little bit random. I was thinking, and it's not something really specific, but it's something that has been sparked in some conversations, and also in the book, yesteryear, or that was just brought up again. And I think what has been fascinating to me is that no matter how well you mean, you can still be the bad person in somebody else's, like, perception. This is very abstract right now, but I can actually tell a story that kind of emphasizes this.

8:02So sometimes I smile at people because I think it's a nice thing to do. And when I was in a pair in Paris, I was on the metro. And at the end of the metro wagon, there was an elderly lady, and she kind of looked roughly in my direction. So I smiled at her, and she picked up her handbag and put it, like, from the seat next to her onto her lap and held on to it.

8:32So when she goes home, she probably tells the story of this young person who seemed threatening and was looking at her. Well, I just thought, it's a nice elderly lady, a nice-looking elderly lady. I don't know if she's nice. I have not had any more contact with her words because she didn't seem very wishful to engage in that. And to me, I just thought I was being nice. And I feel like this has been on my mind a lot that, yeah, yeah, that it's very interesting because no matter how well you mean for everybody involved,

9:13the outcome might still be that people are displeased or unhappy about your choices. So, and I feel like this is also something that kind of stuck out to me in yesteryear.

9:30That with all that she does, she seems to mean well, even though I don't agree with what she does in a lot of respects. I'm not going to say more because I don't want to spoil the book. Yes, please. I would be very sad if you do that. I know the ending.

9:54I was so tempted, actually, to just skip forward and to be like, does she get out of this reality or not? But then I was just like, okay, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm not a child anymore. As a child, I did that. I still do that. I'm pretty funny that I'm so sorry. I always skip to the last 10 pages and just read two sentences there. Usually I don't get what's happening because I just read some names, which I don't know, but I still do that, actually.

10:25I did that once. Like I used to read the last line or the last page of a book. And I did that once and was spoiled so heavily that I then stopped doing it for a while. But then I picked it up again. I also, I tend to read the last sentence, I think, like, are you a hot potato, Imogen, now? So, originally, I wanted to say that I'm most fascinated by how you can actually reach an audience who is not already part of the scientific community with science communication.

11:09Because I feel like that's really, really difficult. I think most of our listeners are probably students or researchers in the field of cognitive science or in any related fields. And I don't know, my ideal idea would be that somebody who is not into research at all finds our podcasts and thinks that the stuff our guests do is super fascinating and then they look more into science.

11:42But, yeah, it's quite unrealistic.

11:47So, yeah, that was something that I have been thinking about quite a lot. But, honestly, now, with the topics that we talked about, I think one thing that I'm even more fascinated by, which acts kind of as an umbrella to also this thing with how we can reach more people through science communication, is community building outside of the Internet. And, like, how you can get involved in your local community, also thinking about what is feasible for me.

12:29Yeah, that has been on my mind quite a lot.

12:34Yeah, and I throw the hot potato over to Elisa. I think it's not a hot potato by now anymore.

12:43Warm to the touch potato.

12:46Well, perfectly to be eaten potato, I guess.

12:51I was quite a lot on Instagram in the past few days just because I was quite drawn into different political points of views. And that just pulled me into the Instagram algorithm. And it was not good for me. But at some point, I stumbled across a profile of a person who is having different, quite exotic animals or pets.

13:22And in her ant's terrarium, she found a slime mold. And I've never heard of that before. And I'm quite fascinated by that organism now. And I already told Imogen sometime earlier about it. Because it's a... It's not... Like, I have the Wikipedia page open right now because I wouldn't be able to say it all correctly. But it's neither animal nor plant nor fungi. Because in German, it's called slime fungus.

13:55So it's none of that. And it can be, which I didn't know before, it can be multiple or one-celled. And the one she had was a plasmodial slime mold, which is a single-cell slime mold. So it's just one-celled organism, which is quite intelligent. So it can kind of solve or can get through mazes quite easily and quite quickly. It can move. She was told to feed it with oat. So they digest oat and carbs. They kind of look a bit like a tree-like structure and just spread across whatever they are living on.

14:31And, like, I wouldn't want to hold it as a living organism at home because I've... I don't want to say disgusted because it's still kind of a whatever living thing. And I don't want to judge it. But I'm just quite fascinated by a brainless, non-animal-like organism that has some kind of intelligence, is moving.

14:56And is just... Yeah. I don't know. I can't explain it, but I'm just quite fascinated by it.

15:05And... You also mentioned that it grows quite large in size. Yeah, it can get... Like, the largest ever...

15:13The largest in captivity was, I think, five and a half square meter. And in the wild, it's... The largest it can get is one square meter. So it's still large. It's still quite big. And, like, it needs moist environments to survive. But when it's dried, it just kind of dries together, shrinks. And once it gets wet again, it just spreads again. And it can have up to 720 different genders, apparently.

15:44That's wild. Yes. And, like, why is it growing? Like, could it grow in my bathroom? No, I think it's kind of... Like, it's... It needs... I don't know when to say started. It's a bit like with a fungus that you kind of need a sporn at the beginning for it to grow. And then it kind of grows out of that, or you need a starting dried patch. And the person who found it in her ants kind of reconstructed that she got it on the leaves of some berry, which she picked up for her ants to put in the terrarium.

16:22And then she just had this thing growing. And she even found a different kind. So she had a yellow plasmodium slime mold. And then she also found a different one on one of her trees that she had in the terrarium. That's wild. And the big one, so the one square meter one or the five square meter one, was it one cell still? Or... Yes. Because normally cells are small.

16:52Yes. Does it have DNA?

16:55Presumably. I think the different genders come from different parts of DNA. But I'm not sure. Like, I'm not that deep into it. I was just really fascinated by it. We will link the Wikipedia article in the show notes. These show notes are going to be a wild ride. Wow.

17:16So, from the episodes of this season, do you have anything, any facts, any moments? Anything that kind of stuck out to you and that you are still very present on? I think I just keep the hot potato. I think for me, it's that cats don't necessarily have a favorite paw, but that depending on the environment they're living in, they can switch, also switch the dominant paw.

17:46But that pawedness can have cognitive benefits for cats. So, if you want to re-listen to that, it's in the episode, What Happens in the Brain of Your Cat? With Dr. Sivim Ispater and Professor Natia Freund. And I can really recommend this episode. Not only for cat fans, but because we also talk a bit about dogs. I'd like to give a fun fact about that, because we initially planned on doing stats in this episode, but we scrapped that.

18:18But the most popular episode, to the surprise of absolutely no one, if you consider the Spotify most played episode, which is the main way of hearing our podcast, I guess, is actually the cat episode. So, people on the internet living up to the expectations here. Yes. Okay. Should I hot potato the next person again? Yes. Clara, because you were so enthusiastic about it.

18:53I don't have, like, a specific, like, very specific thing, which I still have in mind, but I liked our, like, special winter episode about science communication, because I thought it's, like, really interesting how other creators are, yeah, just, like, doing their stuff and giving a little insight how they're working.

19:25Yes.

19:27All right. I'm gonna hot potato. Sophie. So, I think, yeah, I think one of the most interesting things that kind of stuck out to me, like, one of the fun facts is when Karen Emery talked about that a lot of people who are not hearing or, like, deaf,

19:58actually read faster, actually read faster, and that they kind of can do the speed reading that a lot of people actually try to learn.

20:11And they are investigating how that works and why. And I think, yeah, I think that was my favorite fun fact from this episode, from this season. Wasn't it also only for deaf at birth people? Yes. Yes. Yeah.

20:30I had a hot potato, Zynga. I was about to intercept if you had a hot potato in Bogen, so I'm perfectly happy, because my most interesting moment, I guess, came from the same episode. And it is the fact because I never really thought about sign language that much before. And then I realized that subconsciously I always assumed that, like, all sign languages were invented by people, like, for example, like, Tolkien invented, like, Elvish.

21:14So, like, it's completely made up by, like, one or two people, but as it turned out, like, some of them are invented and some of them are not invented. And that's, like, really fascinating because it was, like, one of the first times since, like, we have rigorous scientific methods that, like, humans created a new language that isn't there before. And that we then kind of had the chance to observe, like, how humans create language and how the actually naturally arising languages differ from the ones that were invented by, like, the expert groups who then, like, dictated the rules.

22:00And I found that really fascinating and it kind of went against my subconscious beliefs that, like, all sign languages were invented by a small group of people.

22:14And now you, Imogen, you're the only one left who didn't touch the potato for the second time.

22:24Me and my lukewarm potato. So, I think what I found or one of the episodes that I found most interesting was the episode with Professor Rainer Brommer, which was on science communication or what does research say about science communication? And what stuck with me was that at some point he said that actually, like, the broader public doesn't need to know or understand all of science because there are a lot of areas that are quite niche.

23:04I guess a lot of the stuff that we are looking into in cognitive science would fall under that as well. So, if you look, for example, at computational models of neurons, they don't have any practical applicability for people in their day-to-day life. So, why would they need to know about them? But the more important thing he said was that if the public at any point needs information about a certain topic because it's politically relevant,

23:35we as scientists need to make sure to make them available in a way that it's easily found and easily to digest. And that gave me a whole new outlook on what the motivation behind science communication maybe should be or in what way we should strive to present current scientific progress, I guess. Yeah.

24:05I mean, there's still merit for just explaining cool science stuff for the sake of it, but yeah.

24:16That the main focus maybe should be on preparing the or making the societally relevant science easily understandable. Okay, then next point was who or do you have a dream guest?

Future Topics

24:37I think I wouldn't directly say only a sort of dream guest, but also maybe a dream topic, which you would love to talk about. Like, it doesn't have to be a life. It can be any person you could think of.

24:52Yeah, I can start with that question. So, last season, so in season two, we already had a topic blog about gender. And when we started out planning the blog, we also wanted to feature sexuality more in this topic blog. And I think it would be cool to do another blog more focused on, yeah, sexuality, love, and so on.

25:24Because one of the most interesting courses that I did in university was actually a seminar on asexuality, where we discussed a lot of different approaches, definitions for asexuality. And, yeah, I found this really fascinating because I think a lot of people don't realize how big of a role sexuality plays in our everyday lives.

26:00And how alienated you can feel if you don't fit into this standard framework of experiencing sexual attraction on some level. And, yeah, I think there are also, like, besides different sexual orientations, there's also really cool stuff to explore in terms of the neuroscience behind attraction. And, yeah, I think it would be really cool to discuss that in our upcoming season.

26:32I will toss this new boiling hot potato to Clara. I was just thinking something I personally would find really interesting because I'm, like, reading into this, into that stuff right now for my masterpieces and all that. Maybe like a bridge between cognitive science and media science and, like, finding out or maybe, maybe we could find, like, a topic where we could bridge, especially, like, social media communication and cognitive science.

27:23That's, like, it's a, like, it's a really loose idea right now. I haven't thought about it that long. But, yeah, I think that would be really cool because, first of all, we would have the ability to reach more people and to dive, like, into also other areas. And I'm personally just really fascinated about social media communication right now.

27:52So, yeah.

27:56I'm going to toss the 30-degree potato to Elisa. I think I also don't have a person I would love to talk to, which is a topic that we wanted to cover in this season I just didn't manage to, which I would still love to cover, is the kind of use cases of machine learning in the general health area. So, in maybe psychiatry, but also for predicting cancer, et cetera.

28:30So, just actual use cases of, well, AI or machine learning algorithms to help in diagnostics, to help support people. And I would really love to have that covered maybe next season or the season after. So, just because I think that's also one of the topics that is applicable to everyone listening, not only scientists, to get it back to Emo's point from it earlier.

28:58Yeah.

29:01And I toss the hot, slightly cooled potato to Sophie. I think I had a little bit of my dream guest already with Karen Emery. Because she wrote a lot of the literature I read for my bachelor's thesis. So, it was actually really, really cool to talk to her now, a few years later.

29:25And one of the guests I would find really, really interesting, but also intimidating. And at this point, I also think I'm possible, but also very classical. So, everybody can now take a good guess at who I'm aiming, would be Noam Chomsky, obviously. But I don't think he still gives interviews. Apparently, he's not in good health condition. I've read on the news recently. But since he is kind of the founder of the field of cognitive science, that would obviously be the person to invite to a cognitive science podcast.

30:04Fun fact here, our university once had an interview with Noam Chomsky, which was actually organized by, I think, a second semester student who just reached out to him via email. And, yeah, he replied and was totally up for it. And that was during the pandemic.

30:35And I think so many Coxie students were watching it at the same time. It was really nice to have this unifying event where we couldn't actually meet in person. I remember I actually watched it with my dad because I was home at that time and I know he's listening. So, yeah, it was really fun to watch that with you, dad. So, for everybody who wants to listen to Noam Chomsky, even though we will not invite him to the podcast, the interview will be in the show notes as well.

31:12It's also in English. So, everything's going to be in the show notes.

31:17And I guess I can complete the biggest round. Sorry, I forgot I was holding onto the potato for dear life, but I will pass it on now. Back when I was still in Osnabrück studying cognitive science, I mostly focused my work on, like, artificial intelligence and things I thought would be very useful later on. But, like, very interesting courses to me were always, like, from the philosophy department.

31:52And I would, every semester, like, take one or two of those courses, like, on the side, kind of. And there was one course on the topic of vagueness. So, like, very vague expressions pose, like, a problem to formal logic and our understanding of language because we don't really can cover that with, like, the formal logic symbols.

32:24And that was, like, a very interesting seminar. And there was, like, the first half of the seminar were, like, different positions on the topic. And then there was, like, one paper by a philosopher called Evans. And it's, like, my favorite paper of all time because it's only, like, one page long. And it has, like, completely transformed the conversation about vagueness so that, like, the second half of the seminar was only discussing papers, discussing that one paper.

32:57Because, like, unfortunately, like, two years after the paper was published, the person who published this died of cancer at a very young age. So we don't really understand what he actually meant. And it was, like, a bit confusing, this paper. No, it was just, like, it claimed what it wanted to prove.

33:28Then there is a proof that proves, like, that there is nothing to prove. And then the paper just ends. And it makes no sense. But it's, like, to, like, the community very, very important. And people have, like, various interpretations of what that means. So, like, if we say, like, we don't limit ourselves to, like, dream guests who are still alive, I guess, like, talking to him and what he actually meant in that paper would be, like, this will come true.

34:01You want to work up the trauma that you got from the seminar. That's one of the largest questions in that area of philosophy.

34:12I actually have one person also who I thought about, which would be, or who would be interesting to talk to, I think.

34:25Because, like, I really love the stuff that she's doing and how she's tackling, like, the whole science communication thing.

34:35So, yeah, I think that would be really cool as well. So, the next question we had written down is what other podcasts we would do if we didn't spend our time doing this podcast.

Alternative Podcasts

34:50And I guess for me, because I actually, like, almost two years ago, I guess, did, like, a test run of doing, like, a podcast on happenings in the esports world, going back to, like, my fascination of the day. And, but I didn't, I mean, I didn't even tell you guys, and I didn't really promote it anywhere, and it had, like, exactly zero viewers.

35:20But I was quite happy about that because I was unhappy with what I had put out, and so I stopped doing it. But since, like, a very big esports tournament just wrapped, actually, today, I kind of, like, was feeling a bit sad that it didn't work out, like, two years ago. And I was wondering if I, with what I know now, I could restart it, but I'm not planning on doing that right now.

35:51Yeah, but that's probably what I'd be doing. Especially because some of the games were so interesting.

35:59Exactly.

36:02Like, they were actually close. Sorry.

36:09Yeah, Eibogen, do you then also want to continue with what you would be doing?

36:17Sure. I guess my answer is quite similar to what probably Sofia and Elisa are going to say. I would do a knitting podcast. Actually, I already planned out a whole concept for a knitting and science podcast because apparently there's quite a large overlap in people or especially women who do their PhD and who knit quite a lot in their spare time. And I think it would be really cool to just, yeah, sit down with researchers, talk about their science, but also talk about knitting to have a more relaxed start into it.

36:57And yeah, also just because I want to talk about knitting. So if you really feel like that idea, that could be our next special, leave a comment, please, so we can do that. Like not nudging you into allowing us to do it within this podcast. Okay, so in order to not have two similar answers back to back, I will again pass the hot potato to Clara. Um, I don't have an idea for like a personal project right now that I'd like to do, but I actually would love to do like a news podcast professionally.

37:44Like, um, because for context, I would love to work as a journalist and I really love working with audio, which is also why I'm doing an audio feature for my master's thesis. And I just like to listen to news podcasts myself because I think it's like one of the most convenient ways to consume news. So, yeah, it's something I would really love to do.

38:17It just, like my dream would be to do like a news podcast with Zeit because they have like a really cool news podcast, in my opinion. So, yeah, we'll see what happens in the future. Fingers crossed. Um, I'm going to pass the potato, which is probably mashed by now. Um, Sophie. Um, yeah, I mean, as Imogen already mentioned, this might be boring, but I feel like a knitting podcast might be high in the, in the ideas.

38:59Um, I also, before we did this podcast, I actually planned out a different podcast concept. I actually also recorded an episode that has never seen the light of day. Um, and that was meant to be about people's studies. Um, so, um, Zeit, which has been mentioned a lot, um, because it's a very good German medium, um, has a lot of podcasts.

39:33One of them is called Frisch an die Arbeit, which means like fresh to work if you're translated directly, but it's more like, um, kind of a little bit like, let's, let's go to work or something. Um, and they interview people from all kinds of different professions. And I find that very interesting because they talk about what people do in their day-to-day life, because we obviously know what we do, um, for the bigger part.

40:03And we might know other professions with which we interact, like I have a rough concept of what a GP does, but I don't have a specific concept of what their day-to-day looks like, like, and how they organize their day and why they do things as they do. And I think that's really interesting to me about this podcast, because I get an insight I would normally not get. So they also don't like, they have all kinds of profession.

40:36I think they've talked to a porn star, but they've also talked to a rabbi, but they've also talked to like a vet for zoo animals, I think specifically. And, um, yeah, I think it's really cool to hear what their day-to-day life looks like. Um, somehow that kind of fascinates me and to now finally make it back to my podcast idea. Um, I was considering doing something like this, but for things you study, because I feel like, especially with some areas.

41:10So, first of all, nobody knew what I was doing when I told my parents I wanted to do cognitive science. It took me about four years to understand. Yeah, to this day, I still have to answer a lot of questions about this. Um, the first one being, but what can you do with that? Um, and there are also a lot of studies which come attached with a lot of, um, prejudice, let's say. So, if you, for example, look at computer science, um, you will probably imagine a guy and not a woman.

41:47And I think, um, you also just think, well, I hope you don't, but a lot of people might think that all of them are just nerds. Um, um, for some studies, you assume that people are smarter than people for other studies. And we just have a lot of prejudice around this. And I think, for example, computer science, if you don't have any contact with it, it's also very hard to imagine what somebody does in computer science. Same goes for physics, like, oh, we have this study called, uh, system sciences in Osnabrück.

42:24No clue what these people do. Um, and I think that would be really interesting to give people insight to more of the day-to-day. What these studies look like, what kind of courses you're taking, what you're learning about, what, who, who might join these courses, for what reasons. And, yeah, so that was kind of the idea I had for a podcast.

42:55But then I ended up doing this instead. Cool. Uh, I hot potato Elisa now. Yay. So I get a semi-hot, mashed, quite-touched potato. It's a catafel puffer now. Ah, catafel puree. I don't like catafel puffer. That doesn't, that's not my problem. I don't like anything that's potato and fried. Like, deep fried is fine, but not fried. Oh. Don't ask.

43:26Like, like, fried potatoes get a weird co-taste, I think. And just, like, that just makes me feel sick. I can't even say this. So you also don't like fries? I love fries. I like deep fried potatoes, but not pan-fried. Okay. I now eat a deep fried fry at Elisa. I think for me it's a bit hard to say.

43:57Um, but one idea that I once had was to, I don't even know if that maybe might exist, but, of that might exist, but to get, um, um, quite old person, an elderly person, and a young person, um, into one room and talk about one societal topic or exchange their points of view about one topic that's important to them. Um, like, they don't have to be totally opposite views, um, but just to kind of get an exchange across generations, um, I think would be just interesting.

44:36Um, I don't know if, like, I don't even know if that would be interesting to other people, but just listening to Zunkers having a thought. We're just listening. I'm pretty sure I've seen that format on YouTube with, like, a hundred-year-old talking to a five-year-old or something. Ah, really? Yeah, from Cut. Okay, I don't know what, I, I don't, I'm not really on YouTube. Um, never met it anywhere. I just know another Zeit podcast where two people of totally opposite, um, opinions, uh, talk to each other.

45:08So, this podcast is called, warum decken sie das, or why do you think that, where kind of two people who are totally opposite about one topic, usually quite political topics, talk about the same topic. And then I thought, well. Also, for example, I think the Süddeutsche Zeitung. So, like, also a big newspaper in Germany has, uh, the Streitgespräch. I don't know that one. So, like, arguing also between, like, two points. It's just written down.

45:39Huh, okay. Didn't know that, but anyhow.

45:44I, at some point, had the idea that it might be interesting to, especially topics that are important for different reasons across generations, to have different generations talk about it. Or two kind of quite far apart, um, generations, but if it already exists, it's not really a new idea. There's also what I find quite interesting, this YouTube format. I don't know which channel, I think Jubilee or something, um, where they get people from a group, let's say gay men.

46:20I'm not sure if they have one about gay men, but just to, like, describe the group, or, like, teen moms or something like this. And then they ask them questions. And they can say, like, highly disagree, disagree, neutral, agree, or highly agree. And then they have these, uh, all of these people, but it's very visual. So they walk around, this is all taped on the ground. And then they stand in the area where, how they ever, however they feel about a certain statement.

46:50And then they also discuss, and it's very interesting because it's the same group and they kind of discuss because, just because they are the same group, they don't necessarily need to have the same opinion. But it's a similar concept, I think. Yeah.

47:09Okay, our next question.

Personal Goals

47:14What do you want to learn or try? One thing I really want to learn this year, next year, is needle or, um, nail binding, where basically, it's, I think it's the oldest fabric generation craft there is. So it's older than knitting or crocheting or weaving. And you basically have a needle and you create a piece of fabric, which you can also cut. And I think it's just really cool.

47:44And I would really like to learn it at some point. Um, or like in the next 12 months or so.

47:52Um, and I hot potato Sophie. This has also found my Instagram. Um, in a similar vein, I think, um, in English, it's called bobbin lace. In German, it's called klöppeln. And I have been very, uh, intrigued because it's basically a way to make lace where you attach these wooden things and you basically make knots in a way that create lace.

48:31And this is also how lace used to be created in the past and why lace used to be like, very expensive. And because people would just use, and then they have like, I don't really know, um, probably like 25 strands of, um, of thread at least. And they twist these wooden ends in a way that creates lace, which I find quite a mind-blowing concept.

49:08So, but yeah, I'm, I kind of want to learn it, but I'm also, it seems like a very extensive hobby. Let's, let's, let's leave it at that. Not like a very, you take a look at it and you can pick it up quickly, Javi. It's a bit funny because I always heard, or I've quite often heard the term, the German term klöppeln. But I always thought it was more an aggressive thing. Like I thought it was like, not like, like felting maybe. Where you kind of have some, um, some material at the beginning and then you kind of.

49:45Needle felting. Yeah. And then you just stab it. Yeah. Or you kind of take a hammer and just hammer it or whatever. Like to me klöppeln always sounded like quite aggressive. Which is, because I just look at pictures and it looks so amazing. And I never combine the term with a concept of such a, yeah. Such an intricate process. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think colloquially, sometimes this is kind of used.

50:18Like I've heard it, people being like, oh, ich klöppel das schnell zusammen. So I kind of just put it together quickly, kind of in a way. And I'm, I, I mean, I look at klöppeln and I've looked at videos about it. I've actually researched this on YouTube already. And I'm like, I don't think, this looks way more complex. This doesn't look like you just, you just go with a flow and have an end product. That's nice.

50:49Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, hot potato, Sünke. One thing I will, or I want to try in my life is working on a movie, but I am very, because like, I'm very, like a lot of people, very fascinated with movies. And, um, I kind of want to participate in, in making one, but, um, so far I, I haven't

51:21like found any real talent. Like I, I can't write one. I, I am not good. Like with cameras, I think, um, I can't do the lighting. Maybe I can do the sound with the podcast experience, but not really. So I haven't like found my niche yet, but, uh, like very vaguely, um, working on, on a movie is like one of the things I, I most definitely want to try in my life. You can cast the talents.

51:53You just need to start like a bachelor's degree in media. It's actually something we did, uh, or like, uh, for me and my master's, we did a, like a short film, and then you're also working in a group, so you have multiple people who can help you. You don't have to, to know anything. That's brilliant, yeah. Kind of like this podcast. I'm just taking a long year. Sünke schneidet das raus. Yes, please. Um, yeah, Claire, do you want to, want to continue with, with what do you want to try

52:31and learn? Um, I personally would really love to try pottery. I think I would hate it at the beginning because I need patience for it and I don't have any patience, but I think it's really cool. Like, uh, on Instagram, I, like, a couple months ago, I fell into, like, a rabbit hole where, where a lot of people did pottery and I think it looks so cool when they are just

53:01sitting on the wheel and kind of just create something out of, like, a big piece of mud. Clay. Um, so yeah, I think that would be really fun. But before I can do that, I need to find a job which is actually paying enough to do this kind of thing. I could actually also do it at home. Like, I had some friends who just did it at home and then brought the done objects to

53:36someone to burn it. Um, yeah, the thing is, um, nearly all of my apartment is laid out with, um, carpet. So I think that would be a really bad idea. Or you could get, like, there's this foil you can get when you're painting. For when you're painting. There's really huge foil to cover all the carpet. Yeah, yeah, no. Still, I wouldn't trust myself around it because I, I mean, the thing is also, you need to use,

54:07like, a lot of water with it. So I'm not sure if it's the best idea in this apartment. Yeah. And you just need a little wheel for yourself. Yeah, that's true. I like how we have taken this concept of, uh, just stating what we want to try into, like, a social support group where we want to encourage each other to do the thing that they want to do. It's all for you, though.

54:37I think instead of a podcast, we should start a support group and then we invite guests and they come to us with their problems and we, all five, just give them advice.

54:49So, I'm not sure if we would be that helpful to other people, but. We haven't tried yet. That would be a great podcast concept. I think it would be really funny doing it. But we would need to do a video podcast with that, I think. Yeah, Zünke can cut this so he can, uh, he can, uh, hone his filmmaking skills. Even help him there.

55:13We're always helping Zünke. Who doesn't want help?

55:19And if you ever wonder what our podcast meetings look like, I feel like this is quite representative.

55:31Okay, let's continue. All right. I have, like, a little bit of mashed potatoes left. And I'm going to pass it to Imogen. What do you want to try or learn? I feel like my answer is quite different to what you guys mentioned so far. Um, every time I get asked what I want to do, um, at some point, uh, my mind just goes to paragliding or hang gliding. Because, like, I never felt the urge to go skydiving because I hate the sensation of falling.

56:06And I heard that it's not that bad when, when, when you're falling from, like, I don't know, some kilometers above the earth. But, yeah, for me, that just sounds horrible. But, but I love the idea of flying. And, yeah, um, growing up, like, I grew up next to, um, like, a small mountain range in Germany. And on, uh, days, um, with nice weather, you could actually see the paragliders, um, all

56:36over in the sky and it just looked so beautiful and peaceful. And, yeah, I would just love to, to fly.

56:46Yeah, that would be really, really cool to try out. Nice. Oh, yeah. Next question.

Podcast Goals

56:55Do we have goals for this podcast? Because I feel like we went into this without a long-term plan, like, a long-term plan, most definitely not. We just kind of went into this and we're hoping for the best. And somehow we've made it through three seasons. And in August, it's going to be three years of this podcast, which, to be very honest, is unexpected, actually. Um, because I didn't think we would stick to this so long, just because we're doing

57:30this for free, still. We're still a non-profit. So this is a hobby. Um, and we are five people who organize this together. Um. And still talk to each other besides doing podcast meetings and like each other, which I think is also really worth mentioning when you're doing, like, such a long-term project where you, sorry to interrupt you here. But where you need just lots of organization, um, and hyper-management and figuring things out and things don't go well or you have to just find a solution.

58:03Yeah. Uh, we disagree. We argue about things or how to continue things. Um, just. And we all also have a very busy life, which we're trying to navigate with that. And I think the biggest thing about, or like, one of the also very interesting things is I don't, like, we wouldn't know each other if we didn't have this podcast. At least not that well. Yeah.

58:33Or, like, not at all or not that well as we do. Yeah. Yeah.

58:37Because, uh, I didn't know Imogen or Zinko really before. I only knew Elisa. My sister only, Clara only knew me. So, um, and I mean, Elisa knew everybody but Clara. So I feel like it's, it's also. I also didn't know Imogen we met for the podcast as well. I was Imogen's tutor and Imogen was mine. So we actually did kind of know each other before, but that's a very cognitive science thing. We're not going. Oh, I didn't know that yet. It steps into, yeah, we once, uh, in a, in a meeting figured that one out.

59:12Um, yeah. And I think that also makes it kind of impressive. And I sometimes wonder if that's one of the reasons why it works or if, like, if it's, if this is why it works or if it's impressive that it works despite that. Um, because sometimes you get advice that you shouldn't have good, like, projects with your good friends. So you don't fall out. Like, I have a friend, for example, who used to say she wouldn't, she would never ever move

59:46in again with good friends. Um, and maybe that's why it works. But at the same time, it's also crazy that this works and we could figure out a rhythm where everybody is okay enough to keep doing that without anybody being, like, sad about this. And I mean, Alina left after the first season, but she didn't leave on bad terms. She just left due to, like, time issues. So it's not like we kicked her out or anything.

1:00:19And, uh, with her, it was no different. So like the organization and the figuring out and stuff was still going surprisingly well. Um, yeah. So back to the actual question, do we have goals? So do you have anything you want to reach or do you have anything you want to do in this podcast? I think this is also a little bit overlapping with like potential guests and topics and

1:00:49stuff, I guess. But do you have anything where you're like, oh, I would really like if we could do that at some point. Maybe not directly podcast itself, but like I haven't, I've never met Clara in person, for example. So I would really love at some point for all of us just to meet up in person. Because also it's a bit insane. Like, I think, um, Imuru Yuno knows Sönke in person or did you not meet when you both of you were still in Osnabrück? I don't think so.

1:01:21And I think you, Sophie and you, Sönke, you also didn't meet in person. Once. We met at those, basically. Oh, true. I remember. Okay. For the first and last time. Okay. But like we have two people who have each one person. I have met Clara twice already. I know.

1:01:40And you've met me. Yes. Yeah. But I kind of find it fascinating that I have met Clara actually twice.

1:01:49You have no idea how we managed to do that. The point being, I think just one, not quite podcast, but still podcast goal for me would just to have all of us actually physically together in one room at some point. Because just also having this project for more than, like for more than three years, but for about two years in this constellation and not knowing each person in person is also kind of impressive. And it's not like we're all, like, we're not all living in Germany at the moment, but

1:02:22we are all, we're not that far apart. It's not like we're on different continents.

1:02:29Imagine organizing all of this with a time difference. Wait. That would be the end of it. That's hard enough to do that with some of the guests. But again, maybe it would get easier because then maybe one host and one guest would be in the same or similar time zone and then just one person of us would need to kind of put weekly meetings. But now we just need to organize with one guest. So I think that's the better, better option. Sure.

1:03:00Because anyone else, I don't want a hot potato or anyone on this thing. So I'm not going to throw, I'm going to throw it into the middle and you can take it and eat whatever you want of it. I step on it. You can also step on it.

1:03:18I think I would find it really cool if we maybe found, like, another, like, social media format or Instagram format we could do, which maybe.

1:03:37Would also show more of us, like, behind the scenes.

1:03:43Because I think I love to do, like, the snippets of the episode. But sometimes I think it would be really cool to have also, like, a little bit different content as well. But sadly, I have no idea so far which is realistic for us to do. Because that's, like, the big problem right now. But yeah, maybe we have the light bulb is going on.

1:04:13Someone of you has an idea that they can just throw at us again on all the ways mentioned in the beginning of this episode. I feel like in a similar vein, I would like to, at some point, possibly acquire a little bit of funding. Not because I want to earn money with this in any way. But I think it might be helpful for us because the University of Osnabrück kindly supports us in some aspects, financially, for example, if we want to print stickers or flyers.

1:04:55Or if we want to go to certain conferences. It's not just printing stuff, but also, like, a little more expensive behind the scenes. Or amazing fan t-shirts. Yes. Yeah. Awesome t-shirts. Yeah, I didn't mean to belittle the involvement of the University of Osnabrück, but I think it would be nice because, for now, they kindly give us money for a lot of things. But we obviously always have to ask before.

1:05:26And I think it would also be nice if, for example, people could, I don't know, get a new microphone or something they could use. And also, I think it might be nice to also possibly involve somebody else in the editing. So when we're really busy, we could outsource a little bit, actually. Because, again, we're all doing this for free, which is very nice. But that also means when nobody has time, things suffer.

1:05:59That's just how it goes. And I think sometimes it would be nice if we could say, okay, like, this one reel can be edited by somebody outside. And we have money we could give them. And then we don't need to worry about it anymore. And even if we're all busy, this could still go onto our Instagram. And or the episode could go out or whatever, you name it. So I think that might be a step I would be interested in.

1:06:32I have a goal where we can't really do anything about reaching it.

1:06:40Or like, we can't do anything for reaching it. I think it would be cool to if this podcast at some point mounted to any outside opportunities, like being invited to actually be a guest on another podcast or do a podcast collaboration or something like that, or, for example, be asked to moderate a talk at some point or something

1:07:13like that. I think that would be really, really cool. But yeah, I don't know. We can't really. It just needs to happen at some point. We can't really do anything to support that besides continuing to do this podcast, I guess. If you want to have us on your podcast, you can offer any other thing. Invite us. Just slide in our DMs.

1:07:38Okay. So if nobody wants to add to the podcast goals. It kind of goes into the direction of what Clara said. But I think, I mean, I'm very happy with the podcast we are doing and the guests we are talking to. I think that's really, that's really fascinating. But I think like a lot of topics I see like in the layman social media posts, like people

1:08:12who are just like interested in things and just like put out their thoughts, for example, like on consciousness or something, they kind of touch on cognitive science and there isn't like really anyone I have seen who is like an authority on, not an authority, but like very knowledgeable of cognitive science and can like give a scientific perspective on these things. Like I think like, I think like a lot of these posts about this are like kitchen table psychology

1:08:45and my thoughts on this are, but I have nothing to prove it. And there's like, for like physics, there are these people, there's like for archeology, there is like a whole YouTube or like Instagram community. But I think like cognitive science is like one of the last things where like a lot of popularly discussed things touch on that, but aren't, but there isn't like anyone who really does that. And I don't think that like we right now have the capacity to, to do anything about that,

1:09:18but like either like branching off into, or maybe like inspiring someone to, to do that would be like a very, um, very long term aspiration, uh, of mine. Okay. Um, after we gained some insights on ideas and a lot of what is going through our heads from, uh, how is it called the living mold to, um, bobbin lace.

1:09:53Yes. Um, I feel like we should wrap this up. So, um, our plan is for this season to now go into a summer break as you probably have guessed. So there hasn't been an episode out in a while and we will be on summer break until October. And for the next season, things will continue generally as they are now. So there will be an episode every second week, but we will take a longer break in the winter

1:10:27month because we have noticed that firstly, we need a little more time to prepare things to the quality that we would like to strive for. And the second thing is that it is very difficult to schedule recordings in December, for example, just because around here, a lot of people celebrate Christmas. Um, and also towards the end of the year, I feel like people are quite busy.

1:10:57So therefore we kind of split the next season a little bit into halves. So you will hear from us from October until December and then probably again around the beginning of March. March, but we hope you enjoyed this episode, even though it was not a usual kind of episode. Um, you will have a lot of interesting things to go through in the show notes.

1:11:28This is going to be a long, long show notes. And we're really excited for everybody who has been around for this journey, especially who has been around since the beginning. And we're very grateful for everybody who listens and interacts with our content. And, um, yeah, we hope that we can provide more interesting content for you in the next season. And if you have any suggestions for people we should talk to, um, also reach out to us in one of the ways which have been proposed in the beginning of the episode.

1:12:04I mean, if you have a pigeon that would find us, you can also send a pigeon. Like we take every way of communicating to us. Um, so thank you so much for sticking around for so long, especially also for this long episode. And you will hear from us in October. Bye bye. Bye. That was an aggressive bye bye. Do you know this video of the bus driver and the parrot? No, I don't.

1:12:35This is a meme that has been around. And now everybody around me and Astrid yells bye bye at each other every time somebody leaves. And we look like insane people. Cute. Are we keeping the bye bye or should we do it again? Should we all maybe say bye bye? Bye bye. Bye bye, bye bye, bye bye, bye bye, bye bye, bye bye. We should all say bye bye. What are you doing? Bye bye, bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye.

1:13:05Bye bye. This was Kaleidoscience. We hope that you enjoyed this episode and we would love to have your feedback. feedback. You can rate our podcast and give us feedback on our Instagram account. Have a great week and you'll hear from us again in two weeks. This episode was hosted by Imogen Hüsing, Sönke Löw, Elisa Palme, Clara Kühne and Sophie Kühne. Produced by Imogen Hüsing, Clara Kühne, Sophie Kühne, Sönke Löw and Elisa Palme. The music is from Jan-Luka Schröder and the logo is from Annika Richter.

1:13:42Thank you.