The Staten Island Problem - Part 4: Wu-Tang vs. Shaolin

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Middlemarch Book Discussion

2:01Pushkin.

2:06One of my favorite books is Middlemarch by George Eliot. It's about the life and manners of a small English town in the 19th century. It's also a cautionary tale for the kind of person I am. There's a character in the book named Edward Cazabon. A dreary, middle-aged man who's engaged in a decades-long writing project. Cazabon collects facts he writes on little sheets of paper that he stores in the pigeonholes of his library shelves. He claims that someday he's going to use these facts to prove that all the myths of the world

2:38are really one myth. He's obsessed. He calls it the key to all mythologies. And he sees it everywhere. I'm not middle-aged, and I am fairly upbeat, but I fear that last bit is me.

Staten Island Secession Movement

2:53I see the Staten Island secession movement everywhere in our world today. I've carried my facts about the Staten Island secession movement around with me for quite a while now. They burn a hole in my pocket. I go to parties, and inevitably I wind up in the corner with the Staten Islander who has suddenly revealed themselves. They look interested and then mildly concerned as I pull from memory the facts that I have stored in the pigeonholes of a document I have titled Excellent Staten Island Facts. Did you know the towers of the Verrazano Narrows Bridge are so far apart that they had to take into account

3:25the curvature of the earth when they built them? Did you know that Staten Island claims to have been home to the true and forgotten inventor of the telephone? Am I Kazapon? God, I hope not. I caution myself against seeing my project everywhere. Don't be the hammer to whom everything looks like a nail. Don't try to write the key to all mythologies. And then, I learned something like this. Wu-Tang Clan, arguably the most important group in hip-hop history,

3:56is from Staten Island. They made their first album, Enter the Wu-Tang, 36 Chambers, entirely during the height of the secession movement. And it came out in 1993, just one week after the island was going to vote on secession. I grew up on the crime side, the New York Times side, staying alive was no job, had second hands, moms bounced on old men, so then we moved to Shaolin land. I began to listen to this record every day I worked on this project. On the ferry to the archives,

4:27on the subway to work. Shaolin, what they called Staten Island, is all over it. I come from the Shaolin slum, and the aisle I'm from is coming through with enough niggas, enough guns. Their music is all about their lives, what they witnessed on the island at the time. Like, listen to this from the song Wu-Tang, Seventh Chamber. They bring up the projects in northern Staten Island where Wu-Tang formed, nicknamed Killahill.

5:03It's all about their lives in New York City in the early 1990s, who they were becoming, and what it all had to do with being from the rugged lands of Shaolin. Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with. Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with. I considered putting this on my list of excellent Staten Island facts and leaving it at that. But I had no choice. I put on my headphones. I picked up the phone. I opened my notebook. Kazaban rides again. You're listening to Revisionist History.

5:39I'm Ben Nadeff-Haffery, and this is The Staten Island Problem, a series about the movement that threatened to bring down the greatest city in the country.

5:48In this episode, I bring you the story of the rise of one of the greatest rap groups in history that happened all while the secession movement unfolded in the background. We're going to zero in on an entirely different experience taking place on the island at the same time. One that reveals just how entrenched the Staten Island problem really is. But one that also, I think, might show us a way to solve it.

Wu-Tang Clan History

6:17This is episode four, Wu-Tang vs. the Shaolin.

6:27I should say off the bat that I was unable to reach the Wu-Tang clan. For a brief moment, the manager of a lesser-known member of the group considered giving me an interview. Then he stopped taking my calls. Domingo, if you hear this, I'm ready when you are. But luckily, I was able to track someone else down. I was actually one of the first journalists to ever deal with Wu-Tang because their record label, Loud, called me up. Skiz Fernando was a hip-hop journalist in the 80s and 90s.

6:58He covered Wu-Tang from the beginning. Had he ever considered the crucial overlap of Wu-Tang's formation and Staten Island's secession? He had not. I had no idea any of that stuff was going on at the time. I don't even know if they did. It was the... They must have. It was the biggest story on Staten Island. What was it going to be? Just like... Staten Island was just going to be a city? Yeah. When the Wu-Tang clan first formed, their label called Skiz to write their bio. So he connected with the group's de facto leader,

7:29a guy named Bobby Diggs, who went by the name RZA. And I was immediately struck by this guy. Like, I could detect, like, some serious intelligence in this guy. RZA was a former drug dealer with no professional prospects, living out on Staten Island. That alone was strange. In the pantheon of hip-hop, Brooklyn and the Bronx reign supreme. Nobody is from Staten Island. All of the five boroughs in New York were pretty represented in hip-hop.

8:00In the 90s, you had the, you know, you had, like, the Boogie Down Bronx. The Boogie Down Bronx, it's a one of a kind. It's the place to be. It's a state of mind. About the guys' eyes. It's obviously Brooklyn. Hugs from the honeys, pounds from the roughnecks. See my man say that I do from the project. The money-making Manhattan. Now I'm the guy named Curtis Blow, and Christmas is one thing I know. So every year, just about this time, I celebrate it with a rhyme. You know, Queens, you had Queensbridge Projects, produced so many amazing artists

8:31like Nas, Mobb Deep. And, like, Staten Island, you know, who was from Staten Island? There was not a lot of acts coming out of Staten Island. You know, you had, um... Oh, jeez, I'm blanking. This is all to say, Skiz was surprised. Here was this relatively unknown MC from the island with an encyclopedic knowledge of Kung Fu movies and a crew of eight other MCs

9:02who'd named themselves after a form of martial arts invented by a Taoist hermit. Skiz was like, what? Wow, this guy is something else.

9:17So Skiz, journalist that he is, began a decades-long process of figuring out how exactly the Wu-Tang Clan came to be.

9:26RZA decided what he wanted to do with his life on America's 200th birthday. He was in the Park Hill Projects of Staten Island. It was July 1976, and there was a party in the courtyard. A DJ was spinning records and rapping over them. He dip, dip, dived and socialized. I think those are the exact words that RZA remembered. And that kind of just, just that energy and just the excitement of that whole thing of seeing this free party happening in this environment,

9:56you know, all these kids running around and adults and people just enjoying the music and enjoying each other's company. This was how, this was how hip-hop started. RZA was seven at the time. And when you're a young kid exposed to this, and this is like the excitement that's happening in your neighborhood, you want to be a part of it. And he, he wanted to be a part of it. He stayed up late into the night, transfixed. So immediately,

10:28he goes home and he starts writing rhymes, you know? And then, as soon as he could, he starts DJing. RZA moved around a lot as a kid. He was born in Brooklyn, spent some of his childhood in North Carolina, but he landed in the Park Hill projects on the North Shore of Staten Island. The buildings were built in 1965, around the same time as the bridge and the expressway that split the island down the middle into North and South Shore.

10:58North was where the Black people lived. South was where the white people lived. Several Staten Islanders told me the expressway was their equivalent of the Mason-Dixon line. People were like, where are you from? And I'm like, so I used to say, if I tell you, I have to kill you. And they're like, why? And then I'm like, Staten Island. One day, when I was listing excellent Staten Island facts to a friend, she told me, you should meet Daphne McWilliams. She's a filmmaker from Staten Island. There were only three houses on my parents' block.

11:28And then across from the lake was Park Hill Projects. Her parents were from Trinidad and Jamaica and didn't really know the intricate racial codes of Staten Island. Her family moved to the white area across from the Park Hill Projects back in the 1970s. But when my mother found that house,

11:46she got a threatening, I guess, call or something where they were like, oh, something like, you better hope that you don't see your kids floating in the pond. By one estimate, there were fewer than a thousand people of color south of the expressway. Daphne stuck out. She told me a story from when she was a kid about having a crush on an Italian-American boy named Billy. One day, she called his house. And his mother picked up and she was like, don't ever call this house again.

12:16So I went to school the next day. I was upset and I went and speak to this priest. I don't know what I did wrong. I don't know what I did wrong. and the guy goes, well, you see,

12:28he says something to like, almost like there's a little heaven for white kids and there's like a little heaven for black kids. Heaven is segregated? I was like, oh my God, like I had no idea. When I look back and think about it, we always stood out because we were always the black family. my parents didn't raise us in a segregated mindset. We just never, it was the community

12:59that made us feel different, especially as you get older. But the truth is, all of New York City was segregated then. It seemed like there was a defining race riot every year. Very do the right thing. The reality that Mayor Dinkins' vision of a beautiful mosaic obscured is that if one bit of colored glass from the mosaic crossed another, someone might end up shot or run over. And then the riots would begin again. But southern Staten Island

13:29was a particularly dramatic case. It may as well have been the deep south. When one Wu-Tang member went to Daphne's area, he remembered getting chased out by white kids with motorcycles. They spray-painted KKK on the rocks to warn the black kids away.

13:46This was the Staten Island RZA grew up on. But he had a way of escaping that reality. Hip-hop.

13:56By the time RZA was in his early 20s, hip-hop had gone stratospheric from the courtyards and rec rooms of the New York City projects to the top of the billboard charts. The labels were grabbing at any artist they could. RZA got a deal. He brought his new label a bunch of songs, and they said, we think girls will like you. So we wound up releasing an EP called Ooh, We Love You, Rakeem, a record that presented him as a sweet ladies' man named Prince Rakeem. I've got too many ladies. I've got to learn

14:27to say no. Oh, we love you, Rakeem. It was an attempt to do something extremely commercial, totally inoffensive and upbeat, and also fundamentally false and corny. And maybe for that reason, it bombed. RZA got dropped from his label and he was back to zero.

14:46That's when he started dealing drugs and almost went to prison for attempted murder. He argued self-defense and beat the charges in the end. And he had $10,000 left. It was enough to buy some drugs and sell them. But he had a kid on the way. He had to make a choice. And this choice became so legendary that he's still talking about it. Here he is on a recent episode of a podcast called Flagrant. I had 10K and the gag was,

15:17the plan was to get a break. So we figured, yo, if we flip this 20, we could at least get 80. The thing was, yo, I had a baby in the oven or maybe just born, right? So life was like, what are you going to do?

15:34But then I was like, nah. I have a second chance. That's when he started calling himself RZA. R-Z-A. He would later say it was short for Rakeem Zigzagzig Allah. While everyone else zigged, it was time for him to zag. And so living on a Staten Island that was in the middle of its own very big zag, he began to make a bold plan for an independence movement of his own. Something called

16:04Wu-Tang Clan. Healthcare can feel complicated. That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make healthcare easier, more affordable, and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what your benefits cover. And to help you

16:35better manage your health, we're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler healthcare is always possible. That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit Optum.com to learn more. Before you jump back in, you know that feeling when feedback, notes, and data are coming in from every direction? ChatGPT Work can make sense of it all, turning scattered inputs into ready-to-review work. With your permission, ChatGPT Work can gather context

17:06from apps and files, summarize incoming messages, rebuild decks, and help finalize high-quality documents for your team or clients. Stay in control as you move from a goal to polished work faster with ChatGPT Work. Download the ChatGPT desktop app today and take on your most ambitious work. It's summer vacation, and by vacation, I mean I'll be barbecuing until my fingertips are numb and my belly is filled with beef. Well, my summer involves a little more relaxing than that. Oh, I'm relaxed.

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18:07After he beat his charges, Bobby Diggs, a.k.a. The RZA, began to walk around Staten Island. And he started to take these long, drawn-out walks day after day. So I'm walking and I'm thinking, yo, and I'm walking all, I'm walking through Staten Island. People, people thought there was, I learned this, people thought I was losing my mind because I'm walking and I'm talking to myself.

18:34He would walk the island and think. Staten Island was more than twice the size of Manhattan and RZA could just walk and walk. He would start at the projects on the North Shore and maybe journey along the coastline through the suburban streets.

18:51RZA was ready to make music again. But the first time out with his Prince Rakeem project had gone badly. But the idea he was coming up with now was going to be different. And I want to argue here that it has everything to do with Staten Island.

19:09Let me share with you some writing from RZA's book, The Tao of Wu. I spent my formative years on an island, Staten Island, which is a blessing I've taken with me through life. In Staten Island, Wu-Tang were set apart from all the influences and fads that were happening in the other four boroughs. A nine-man hip-hop crew based on mathematics, chess, comics, and kung fu flicks wasn't springing up in the middle of a Manhattan art scene. Only on a remote island can something like King Kong

19:41grow to his full capacity. But the projects in Staten Island were a difficult place to live. A few of the Wu-Tang members have written books. And reading them, it's clear that it wasn't just the remoteness of Staten Island that led them to the Wu-Tang clan. It was also what they experienced there, especially in the projects. One Wu-Tang member, Yu God, wrote about the first time he saw somebody die. He was five years old, sitting with his mom, listening to Loving You

20:12by Minnie Riperton, play on the radio outside. When he heard a crowd forming in the courtyard, he ran out to look. A woman was standing on the roof screaming. He watched so long, his neck went stiff. Then she jumped or fell. Yu God wrote in his book called Raw, I was a toddler. The sound of her hitting the concrete steps would resonate with me forever. So when RZA walked Staten Island, it wasn't just this utopian vision of the isolated island

20:42where you can dream big. It was also the deeply segregated place where kids living on their own little island watched adults fall to their death. A kind of paradox. And my theory is, that paradox was expressed in the word Shaolin. When RZA was a kid, he and his cousin used to go to a Times Square porno theater. Sometimes, it showed kung fu. And one movie that they loved

21:13in particular, The 36th Chamber of Shaolin. But sir, all of men choose are well armed. What can we do? No man's so weak, he cannot help. Most people came to that Times Square movie theater to jerk off, sniff glue, or shoot heroin. But RZA would later say in interviews that he and his cousin were locked in on this poorly dubbed movie about a small village in China that was being oppressed by a distant government. The hero of the movie is a villager who journeys to the Shaolin Temple

21:43in China to learn to fight back. RZA saw this movie over 300 times. He hadn't realized that kind of oppression happened to people who weren't black. This is from The 36th Chamber when our hero learns what Shaolin is. Shaolin school is restricted. Only monks are taught that. If Shaolin techniques could be taught here and the people could use it to fight the Manchu troops,

22:13that would be good. At some point, RZA started to call Staten Island Shaolin, the place he learned his secret weapon to fighting oppression, hip-hop. But Staten Island was also a version of that distant oppressive government he saw in the films. And as he walked the island trying to come up with his next play, he didn't decide to start a group called the Shaolin Clan. He came up with an idea for something called the Wu-Tang Clan, named after Shaolin's rival. This is from another kung fu movie

22:44they loved called Shaolin vs. Wu-Tang. Isn't it true that you think you're better than us? But you're afraid that one day the Wu-Tang will overtake you. You! So you used your special poison to get rid of my master who was your biggest threat! Nonsense! No, it isn't! I saw it with my own arms! Nonsense! Shaolin aren't afraid of the Wu-Tang. We Wu-Tang will fight! Listen to me! Someone is trying to frame me!

23:04RZA kept walking and thinking. Shaolin. Wu-Tang. 36 Chambers. Shaolin. Wu-Tang. 36 Chambers. Wu-Tang biographer Skiz Fernando knew all about those walks RZA would take. That's one good thing about Staten Island. You can walk around in these nice neighborhoods with like Victorian mansions. You don't have to worry about getting mugged necessarily. And what would have been on the lawns of all those

23:35Victorian mansions RZA was walking by? Signs that said vote yes for the city of Staten Island. Secession means a better life. Billboards for Secession above the streets. The same thing as was on the front page of the paper all the time. The same thing the NAACP of Staten Island was hosting meetings about. Worrying that this could be really bad for black people living on Staten Island. Let me be clear. I have never found RZA himself talking about Staten Island Secession. But in my Cazabon mode

24:05I see a connection. Because as he walked a Staten Island that felt like it wasn't welcome in New York City and was striking out on its own this guy who would have every reason not to feel welcome on Staten Island formed a plan for an unlikely hip-hop group from Shaolin that was about to do the same. Maybe he thought they could skip the whole major label thing that had screwed him before. Maybe he didn't have to sanitize his life and character to succeed. Maybe there could be a hip-hop group from the forgotten borough

24:36that made it all happen on its own. And that group would be called Wu-Tang Clan. He began to assemble his crew. And the core ideology for RZA I think had a whole lot in common with the secession movement. It's the exact same fantasy. If some central authority is dominating you and you don't like it what do you do? Go away to Shaolin learn the truth build a movement and go to war with the oppressor till you remake it

25:06in your own image.

25:09Health care can feel complicated. That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make health care easier, more affordable and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what your benefits cover and to help you better manage your health, we're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler health care is always possible.

25:40That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit Optum.com to learn more. Before you jump back in, you know that feeling when feedback, notes and data are coming in from every direction? ChatGPT work can make sense of it all. Turning scattered inputs into ready to review work. With your permission, ChatGPT work can gather context from apps and files, summarize incoming messages, rebuild decks and help finalize high quality documents for your team or clients.

26:11Stay in control as you move from a goal to polished work faster with ChatGPT work. Download the ChatGPT desktop app today and take on your most ambitious work. It's summer vacation and by vacation, I mean I'll be barbecuing until my fingertips are numb and my belly is filled with beef. Well, my summer involves a little more relaxing than that. Oh, I'm relaxed because I'm a Walmart Plus member with free same-day delivery on groceries, prescriptions and more. That means I can just chill out and more barbecue time, baby!

26:41Who knew? Every Walmart Plus member knows it's the secret to bringing vacation back to summer. Now, how about you throw a turkey burger on the grill for me? Ryder, for you, anything. Ah, now that's vacation. Membership pays for itself. Join Walmart Plus and see the difference. Subject to availability. $35 minimum. Restrictions apply.

RZA's Plan for Wu-Tang Clan

27:01Let me put my Kazavan robe back on and bring you back into my library. Please, sit at the table. Have a mug of tepid tea. I believe that the fantasy Wu-Tang Clan had was that there's a way to strike out on your own independently and take over the forces that oppressed you. And that's the exact fantasy of the secessionists emanating from the exact remote island at the exact moment so many people on the island experienced it.

27:33And it was the spirit of what Skiz, that Wu-Tang biographer, told me that RZA did next. He took the whole mythology that was in the movies and he appropriated it to his current conditions of a black man living in Staten Island doing battle in this game called rap against the music industry. Walking the island, RZA had come up with a five-year plan.

28:04He'd go to the greatest underrated MCs he knew on the island and band them together into the Wu-Tang Clan. He'd been burned by the labels before with that Prince Rakeem album, so now he wanted to go it alone. He'd take the $10,000 he'd saved and use it to start a production company. These guys had absolutely no future. They're all caught up in the street game. They're all selling crack. You know, two for five on the street. They didn't want to be doing that.

28:35The guys all went out to a diner on Staten Island. They toasted Wu-Tang with a bottle of champagne. Each member put up $100 for studio time. The next day, they started recording what became their first single, Protect Ya