IV. Take It to the Bridge (ft. Tayla Parx)

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Bridge Discussion

1:19Charlie, I have a question for you. Shoot. Can I take them to the bridge? Take them to the bridge. Can you take it to the bridge? I don't know. I have a question for you. Have you seen the bridge? I ain't seen the bridge. Where's that confounded bridge? Where is that confounded bridge?

1:40Switched on pop. Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan. And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding. And Charlie, what are we talking about today? The bridge. The bridge. And what did we hear at the beginning of this episode? Ooh, uh, shoot. Which James Brown track is that? Can I take them to the bridge? Yeah. Take them to the bridge. Oh, yeah. Hit me now. That was get up, parentheses, I feel like being a, close parentheses, sex machine.

2:12Wow. See, the bridge is not always the most interesting part of the song, but you've really raised the stakes. What else do we hear, Charles? We heard Led Zeppelin's The Crunch. Have you seen the bridge? I ain't seen the bridge. Where's that confounded bridge? These are two iconic moments where the artists are actually calling out one of the signature sections of the modern pop song, the bridge.

Song Structure Series

2:37And today we're going to devote the fourth and final installment of our series on song structure, the art of the song, to this element, which in a lot of songs is only a small part of it. And yet it kind of has this outsized reputation in the craft and the culture of pop music. It takes a long time to get there. I mean, you got the intro, you have the verse, you might then have a pre-chorus, chorus, post-chorus, and then you got to do that all again, right? Well, no intro. Maybe there's a little interlude.

3:07Verse, pre-chorus, chorus, post-chorus. And finally you've arrived at the bridge, usually at like the golden ratio, around two-thirds of the way through the song. And what's it going to do? Well, this metaphor of infrastructure is so fitting for this because it kind of feels like it's a moment of suspension. You know, you've heard all these sections that we've talked about now over three episodes of our show. So, the intro, the verse, the chorus, we've cycled through those a few times.

3:39And maybe you've arrived at this penultimate moment in the song where you need a break, you need some contrast, and you get a bridge. You get to literally go over something. And before we go any further, I feel like we need to get the sound of a bridge in our ears a little bit. And, Charlie, I'm going to return to the song I played you back when we did our verse episode. To me, the platonic pop song, Aretha Franklin's You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman.

4:15Let's not jump straight to the bridge. We need to appreciate it a little bit in its context. You'll remember the song starts with a sort of pensive verse.

4:27Our pre-chorus raises the stakes and starts to put a more positive spin lyrically as we move towards the chorus.

4:39And that's a really unfortunate pause because we're about to hit the iconic chorus of the song. And no one wants to hear my voice. We want to hear Aretha. You make me feel like a natural woman. We'll take that whole ride again. Verse, pre-chorus, chorus. But then this time, we're going to go to our new section, our bridge. Oh, baby, what you've done to me. What you've done to me. You make me feel so good inside.

5:12Good inside. And I just want to be, want to be close to you. You make me feel so alive. And then final chorus. You make me feel, you make me feel, you make me feel. Wow. That bridge does a lot. Tell me, Charles. Everything here is putting us in suspense. The rhythm section. The bass is going bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. You make me feel so good inside.

5:45You're like, oh my gosh. I almost feel like something is chasing you. You've got to get across this bridge. The string arrangement has these really lush chords with these extensions and suspended moments. Literally suspensions in the chords that are looking to resolve. Suspension bridge. Wow. Yeah.

6:08And then the harmonies, they're kind of cycling back and forth until they start to move and create some forward progression.

6:20And it's right here. We know we're going to go back to the chorus. You make me feel. Yeah. And then I haven't even thought about the lyrics. Lyrically, the bridge of the song kind of opens up a little window into another side of our narrator's experience, right? She sings, oh baby, what you've done to me. You make me feel so good inside. I just want to be close to you. You make me feel so alive. It's kind of like deepening the message of the song a little bit. That extra little bit of musical and lyrical information makes that final chorus hit so much harder.

6:55Yeah, it makes it feel less like a crush and more like a relationship that has some time to it. I think that's why the bridge, even though it represents a pretty small percentage of the song overall, kind of has this outsized role in people's imaginations. You know, some artists like Taylor Swift, for instance, are celebrated for their bridges. And some songwriters make it a point of pride to craft the most hard-hitting, meticulous bridges they can. Confession. Uh, typically when I'm writing a song, chorus first.

7:28Yes. Then verse one. Because you kind of need to know how you get to the chorus. You know, probably a pre-chorus. Verse two then, you know, comes along. Do we change the second pre-chorus? Maybe. Then you're like, ah, the song's pretty much done. And you're like, oh, it's a really nice session. And, oh, shoot, we didn't write a bridge. It's often an afterthought.

Bridge Evolution

7:48So today I want to understand how the bridge evolved, where it's going, and what it says about why we love pop music. In a lot of these episodes, we've had to go back to the age of the great American songbook, Tin Pan Alley, which of course has been a delight for me. And to understand the bridge, I feel like we also have to return to that era, the 1920s, the 1930s. Because a lot of these songs have a bridge. In fact, sometimes it was called the release, which I feel like says something about what this function actually is.

8:21And you find them over and over again, right? Over the rainbow, you sing it to your kids every night. This song has a beautiful release, right? Someday I'll wish upon a star and wake up where the clouds are far behind me. Very nice. Where troubles melt like lemon drops away above the chimney tops. That's where you'll find me. And then that brings us back to the opening line. Somewhere over the rainbow. Yeah. What about one of my favorites, On the Sunny Side of the Street?

8:56You know, the song is all about, you know, life isn't so bad, just walking on the sunny side of the street. We get to the bridge. It goes, I used to walk in the shade With my blues on parade. And literally the chords get kind of shady, kind of dark here. But then as the narrator emerges into the light, it starts to brighten up. But now I'm not afraid. This rover crossed over.

9:27If I never had one cent, I'd be rich as Rockefeller. I mean, that is a great bridge because it literally takes you from dark to light and it sends you back into the final line of the song. Clarifying question. So you're going back to the Great American Songbook. These songs are usually structured in an A, A, B, A form. A section, their main thing is repeated twice. B is a little bit of a little bit of break. To take us back to the A section. Are these what you're calling the bridge? Is that the B section? Yeah, exactly. Got it. Okay.

9:58B section. B for bridge. Why not? Great. And when we see the bridge start to take a larger role in pop music, we have to bring up a band we've talked about already. Again, the Beatles. Yes. And I know maybe some people are listening. They're like, oh, these Beatles, the guys, these guys, all they talk about is the Beatles. But I can't help it. They had a huge impact on pop music. And yeah, I personally love them. They wrote some great bridges. They sometimes would call them the middle eight of the song because they're eight bars long. Right. What's cool about Beatles bridges is that they start to become their own little worlds within the song.

10:35Take No Reply, for instance.

10:41Here's the bridge. If I were you, I'd realize that I love you more than any other guy. Something interesting is happening here. The bridge is expanding. It's lengthening. It's growing into a more important section in the song. And in this particular song, it's kind of a revelation. It's like where the narrator drops his mask a little bit and really gets on his knees and is like, let me show you just how desperate I am for you to believe me.

11:18It even calls out the song title at the very last line of the bridge. Another Beatles bridge I love is We Can Work It Out because it really captures the John Paul dynamic. Like, here's Paul in the chorus singing We Can Work It Out. And here's John in the bridge.

11:52Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting, my friend. Whoa.

12:05Okay. So hold on. That moment when they're fussing and fighting and the song goes into triple meter. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. One, two, three. It's like they're tussling around trying to find their way. It just captures the two personalities. Paul is all bright and optimistic. Yeah. You know, we can work it out. And John is like, life is very short and there's no time. But maybe the most epic Beatles bridge is from George Harrison on the song, Something. It actually has a connection back to We Can Work It Out where you're kind of solidly in 4-4 and then something's falling apart.

12:55Oh, yeah. In this case, I don't think we quite go into triple meter, more of a sort of syncopated moment. Dun, dun, dun. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Wow. That's cool. Yeah. And I think that's so appropriate because a bridge is a place where you can experiment a little bit. You can like try things out musically. You can stretch the limits of what a song can do. And in this case, it almost introduces like a song within the song. It's so expansive and rich. And what it does for the listener is it really like brings you deeper into the world of the song. It makes you more invested in a lot of ways.

13:27If the Beatles help set a new standard for what this part of a song can do, making it more epic and experimental. When we cast around for examples from the last, say, 20 years of pop music, we find some really interesting approaches.

Modern Pop Bridges

13:46I'd like to propose that we can think about bridges not just as this like locational meaning within a song. You know, it comes right before the final chorus. Yeah. But actually as what they do to the song itself, like how they change it in some way. And the first category I propose is bridges that change the meaning of the song in some way. And I have a couple of examples that might surprise you. The first is one of my favorite hits of the 21st century.

14:17A little song by Beyonce called Single Ladies. You know the chorus, like the back of your hand. All the single ladies. All the single ladies. And here's the bridge. I've heard this song so many times. I don't think I ever have thought much about the bridge, but there's a lot happening here. Uh, so much. It actually reminds me a little bit of even the Aretha Franklin that we heard at the beginning where in that song we heard that the bridge showed that this isn't just a crush.

14:55This is like a real dedicated kind of love. And I feel like Single Ladies I often think about as sort of like the almost transactional, you know, it's like you got to put a ring on it. Yeah. If you like it, then you should put a ring on it. It kind of puts together commerce and relationship, the importance of the ring. But this bridge, this is about eternal love. Yeah. I mean, she literally sings, don't treat me to these things of the world. I'm not that kind of girl. Your love is what I prefer. So I think you're on to something. If Single Ladies is like this kind of fun, buoyant, catchy number with an iconic music video, the bridge kind of makes it something deeper and maybe more profound.

15:34It's not just like put a ring on it because I want it. It's like this is my destiny. You know, she even quotes Buzz Lightyear. How did I never realize this? To infinity and beyond? How have I heard this song so many times and never realized there's a Toy Story reference? And then at the very end, this really kind of haunting moment where she says, if you don't, you'll be alone. And like a ghost, I'll be gone. And do I even hear a ghost in the background? If you don't, you'll be alone.

16:05And like a ghost, I'll be gone. I want to single it. What a weird moment. There's this like skittering synth that makes it sound like a haunted house. These ethereal vocals. Wow. And then we're back to like kind of the happy, you know, catchy aspect of the song. But this bridge makes like elevates the song into something else entirely. Yeah. I mean, I've always thought about the song as like a song about engagement. Now I realize that the song is, yeah, it's about the infinite length of that relationship. It's beautiful.

16:35Another bridge that I think belongs in this category is more recent. It's Chapel Roan's Good Luck, Babe. There's the end of our chorus.

16:51And now our bridge. Something is happening. Almost sounds like a seance. When you wake up next to him in the middle of the night With your head in your hands, you're nothing more than his wife And when you think about me, all of those years ago You're standing face to face with, I told you so Oh my gosh. I'm not paying enough attention to bridges. Okay. What is this song about? Right? You can kiss a hundred boys in bars.

17:23It's the chorus. Shoot another shot. Try to stop the feeling. Good luck, babe. You know, you're not going to be able to deny your true feelings for me. The bridge kind of brings this all into focus. It does something remarkable. It shoots forward in time. You know, the rest of the song is in the present. And then all of a sudden, when we get to the bridge, it's like when you wake up to him in the middle of the night, a lot is happening in that sentence. It's like this kind of nightmare of the future, right? That she's painting. It's the opposite of single ladies. It's the opposite of single ladies.

17:53And then it decrescendos when she says, you know, I hate to say it. I told you so. And then she just comes back out and screams the final line. That's a really unusual gesture because the bridge up until that point is building and building and building. And that's often what's going on in the bridge is you're trying to bridge back to the chorus so you can get one more chorus.

18:26Ideally, you have transformed the meaning as well. But there is a sonic purpose, which is like, let's hear the memorable part one more time to make a hit. And instead of giving you the thing you expect, it drops down one more time so that she can really tell you her message.

18:44And boy, is it vengeful. It also makes you think about that final chorus a little differently. It has a little bit more of a sting now. That sentiment, good luck, babe, it's more potent than it was before that bridge somehow. That's the category of bridges that introduce some kind of new depth to a song. Then I feel like there's another category where the bridge becomes its own kind of universe. One contemporary artist who's really good at doing this is the singer-songwriter Maisie Peters.

19:16She is kind of known for writing these epic bridges that sometimes become the focal point of the song. A Sterling example is her 2020 track, I'm Trying, Not Friends.

19:35Bridge.

19:46It feels like it should have ended right now, but it's still going.

20:07And then we're back in the chorus. It's an odd bridge because it feels like it goes on a lot longer than it should. But I think that's exactly the point. It's kind of the fulcrum of the song. It might actually have a more powerful message than the chorus itself. And this is known to happen from time to time in popular music. A bridge might kind of outshine the other aspects of the song. Take an example that was actually selected by Billboard magazine as the greatest bridge

20:42of the 21st century a few years ago. It is none other than Hey Ya! by Outkast.

20:56One of the original memes, shake it like a Polaroid picture. I'm definitely not here to impugn the legendary chorus of Hey Ya! But in some ways, this bridge with its imperative of shake it like a Polaroid picture might be like the most famous part of this song. And the part of the song that like really kind of gets everyone out on the dance floor. Yeah, I mean, in many ways, Hey Ya! even takes his central thesis and reinforces it with the bridge, right? The thesis is, you don't want to listen to me, you just want to dance.

21:29Y'all don't want to hear me, you just want to dance. To a song that's about failed relationships. And the bridge is just, yeah, just shake it, shake it, shake it, shake it, shake it. You've ignored all the rest of my message and that was the part that stuck. Shake it, shake it, shake it, shake it, shake it, shake it. Shake away the pain and just lose yourself and dance. Yeah, exactly. My next and final category are bridges that have a narrative twist. Ooh, I love a twist. And here we have to talk about Taylor Swift, inevitably.

22:03Whatever one's feelings about Taylor Swift, I feel like you have to acknowledge she is in many ways a consummate songwriter. She at least puts a lot of attention and detail and that really comes through in her bridges. I feel like Cruel Summer is maybe one of her most famous ones and also a nice example of this narrative twist.

22:27So this song is about a cruel summer with a relationship that seems to be going nowhere, but you also can't quit. When we get to the bridge, though, there's like something else going on here. I'm drunk in the back of the car And I cried like a baby coming home from the bar Said I'm fine, but it wasn't true I don't want to keep secrets just to keep you alive Stunk in through the garden gate Every night that summer just to steal my fate And I scream for whatever it's worth

23:00I love you Ain't that the worst thing you ever have People are keeping secrets, sneaking in through the garden gate and screaming for whatever it's worth, I love you Ain't that the worst thing you ever heard I think there's a way to read this song as I kind of want to say like almost an abusive relationship Yeah What at what point felt like this like messy summer fling has now Gone a little darker with this bridge I mean it really adds meaning to the word cruel

23:31Like it's not a passively cruel summer It's like actually this is a truly bad relationship People might say like oh yeah this is just a casual thing No one's gonna hurt any feelings But then it stretches on too long and feelings really get hurt Something goes truly wrong She even ends this song with the bridge As if to say like look a little deeper here This is one of her most famous bridges But I think the one that best represents the idea of the narrative twist Is her song Getaway Car off the Reputation album This is about two people fleeing a scene

24:05Fleeing a relationship perhaps together But what happens in the bridge of the song? Nothing good starts and I get to wake up A little modulation So okay this is a little bit of like a love story

24:44Like twist Where in love story Romeo and Juliet get together Everything's perfect Here she's like we're Bonnie and Clyde We're gonna get away together It's the opposite She turns Bonnie and Clyde into Psych I'm stealing the money I'm in the getaway car It's like she took whoever that person was in Cruel Summer And left them on the side of the road It's a great moment because it takes the structural function Of the bridge is connecting these two final choruses To actually like twist the meaning

25:15To be about not us riding off into the sunset together But me betraying you And then when you get to that final chorus It's like I'm in the getaway car Yeah And you as a listener are just like Damn that was savage The twist bridge is one of my favorite kinds of bridges Like because you get to the final chorus Which is a thing you probably are gonna have heard For the third time And it might feel like it's gonna be predictable But once you have that bridge Now there's a new way of hearing the chorus

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Bridge Taxonomy

27:35I've just offered a taxonomy of the bridge in modern pop And yet, despite all the rich uses of this part of the song There are a lot of people out there who are very worried about the bridge What's wrong with the state of the bridge? We need a Build Back Better program for the bridge, honestly, Charlie Because our infrastructure is crumbling, according to these critics There was an article written in The Guardian a few years ago

28:06With a provocative title Is TikTok killing off the bridge? And, Nate, bridges can't be killed off They are not living entities But we could blow them up We could demolish them That's a nice copy We could go with that This article quotes a podcaster Who's, oh, oh, oh, yeah Songwriter Charlie Hartnell What did I say? Do you have any recollection of contributing to this article?

28:37I think three years ago? Yeah, absolutely But you could refresh The whole memories of all the stars He lies through his teeth Well, you were very sanguine about the future of the bridge You were like, you know, forms change as musicians change And audiences change And, you know, just because the bridge might be changing Doesn't mean it's something we need to be sad about, necessarily However, someone else in the article disagreed with you And that was the rock musician Sting

29:08He said the bridge is disappearing And he wasn't happy about it But, Charlie, I'm not sure that's the case I don't know how I feel about you pitting me against music legends I'm trying to start some beef here I think it'll be good for our ratings Okay, okay But my instinct is to align myself with you, Charlie My old friend, my podcast partner Thanks Because I was going through the year-end Hot 100 charts From, like, the last 10, 20 years

29:39And all the top songs Well, a lot of them had bridges Take that, Sting But I also think what you said is true I think the bridge is changing And if we want to understand how and why the bridge might be changing We probably need to talk to someone who's in the trenches Where pop music is being made Ideally, someone who's worked with big stars on tracks like Thank You, Next by Ariana Grande High Hopes by Panic at the Disco Pink by Janelle Monae

30:12And maybe even had a number one country hit With Dan and Shay's Glad You Exist The songwriter is deep Who are we talking to?

Songwriter Taylor Parks

30:20Who could possibly fill such a role? What's up? I'm Taylor Parks I'm a singer, songwriter All of the things Taylor Yes, it's Taylor Parks Singer, songwriter Artist Former Switched On Pop guest And Farmer?

30:40You know, I'm out here We have about 65 animals We do regenerative farming Over here at the Sage Estates in Nashville So my day is like We start off, you know Tending to the animals And then, you know Then I'm going and make some music Takes animal husbandry to really understand how to write a bridge I wanted to get Taylor's thoughts on the bridge Through a discussion of Some of the most interesting ones that she's worked on And since Ariana Grande just dropped a new album

31:11I feel like it was appropriate to ask Taylor About how Ariana approaches a bridge And while Taylor's best-known sessions with Ariana Are probably Thank You, Next and Seven Rings I think one of my favorite bridges that they wrote together Is the track POV Off the 2020 album Positions Here's the bridge Wow

31:51That's not some simple middle eight When I asked Taylor about the song She actually said that the very first thing You need to do as a songwriter Is decide whether the song needs a bridge at all It's interesting because I feel like There's kind of been an evolution of the bridge Over the past few years, right? Where we are now in a bridge is People are either like It's a vamp Or It has Or there's no bridge Or you have three options And that third option would be

32:23Or it actually has to be something That adds to the storyline Or the sonic palette And I think that that is What the goal was for this particular bridge Because I hate as a writer Just to have something there Just to say it's there I'm like if it's not adding to the song Delete it Like Or Revisit and make something that adds to the song This is my problem I don't think that the bridge is going to happen So I don't write the bridge Which sounds like it's a perfectly excusable thing to do Even though I do feel like great songs often have great bridges

32:54I can see why Tayla and Ariana felt this song needed a bridge It kind of reminds me of what we said about Aretha back in the beginning of the episode It kind of makes it like a little more serious in a way She's singing in the bridge about all of her baggage fading away How she's like thawing You really sense that there's something transformative happening in the bridge of the song And for Tayla you know That has to come from the artists themselves Like it has to reflect their real world experience

33:25A lot of that was literally Like me as a songwriter My whole thing is You know making things Taylor made to that person And so that takes spending time with that person Or knowing that person Me and Ariana have known each other I feel like we've seen each version Since like 15 And at this point she was dating this guy And it was the way that they looked at each other And it was the way that you know All of those things I was like oh POV

33:55Like there is something there And that was kind of the seed of the song Is just being like woo Like when you see the way that two people look at each other in love You know that only they look at each other like that And see each other like that And so that's kind of where we went off from So there's different styles And for her especially a singer When I work with a singer's singer I need those moments to actually say like Look this is what the audience expects The same way that like with a Taylor Swift song

34:26They know they're going to get some tea Like it's the most famous part Of like she's the artist that could never not do a bridge Because they're looking forward to it And so it really does go based off of each artist That artist audience And all those things of whether you have a bridge And what kind of bridge you know you're having It's a whole universe It's not just the song It's the audience expectation It's the artist and all that they're bringing to their life It's their lived experience I know I never thought about it this way Like there are bridge artists and non-bridge artists

34:59A nice example of tailoring the song to the artist Is a track that Taylor co-wrote for the artist Jenny Of the K-pop girl group Blackpink When she released her solo debut album Ruby in 2025 That track was like Jenny And Taylor recognized that it needed to introduce her as a solo artist And so she didn't think it needed a bridge She didn't even think it needed a pre-chorus

35:30She didn't want anything to slow this song down Charlie, I think you're really going to appreciate What she did in place of a pre-chorus in this track Special edition and your A I couldn't copy I'm leaving clues in the fitting room and it's hot tea No I'm not thinking about no exes No they miss me I got the whole room spinning like a star Charlie? Don't pause, take it to the chorus I like a lot of things about that

36:03The verse makes a nice knock at AI Yes It includes a moment about tea You know that I'm a very big tea drinker That's right It makes a nod to the song Tipsy Which was revived by Shaboozie In his interpolation and bar song Yes And then Don't Boris gets to the chorus Don't Boris, take it to the chorus I've never heard that in a song I was floored when I heard this Because like we say this You know I don't know Every other episode at some point And in this series we've probably said it a dozen times

36:34And now Taylor's putting it in As this like self-referential moment In this epic Like Jenny track It's kind of a very tongue-in-cheek easter egg Of like Yeah I'm not gonna give you a pre-chorus Because in this song We just need to get to the chorus Yeah And remind everyone who this artist is Jenny Let's say it a hundred times And let's make sure everyone knows That this solo artist is about to break out I mean as much as you say that the song Doesn't have a bridge Doesn't need a bridge

37:05It feels like a bit of a nod to James Brown as well Where you know James Brown is telling his whole band When we're going to the bridge Can I take them to the bridge? Take them to the bridge And she's kind of doing the same thing But moving it to the more important part of the song The chorus Here's what Taylor had to say This song flew And I was just like We were trying to decide Should we have a pre-hook? And that is something that I say I'm talking with a lot of other people It's just like Nah don't bore it Stick us to the chorus

37:35Like we hadn't even written the hook yet But I knew There wasn't going to be A pre-hook Because it didn't need one You know And so we used it as kind of like You would call that just a turnaround You know It's not necessarily a pre-hook But it is a transitional moment And I love that it's Just kind of being very It's like in TV and film When the actor looks at the camera A lot of times people think That songwriting is just

38:05Blurting out your emotions But songwriting is psychology There's such a psychological aspect To songwriting And choosing certain words To evoke a certain emotion It has to be very intentional Or else you can accidentally Write things that people Can sing along to Absolutely But if you're going to be A songwriter You want to figure out How did I do it? I like when a song Acknowledges me and says Hey I see you there I see what's happening One of my favorite bridges Right now is from A track by Raven Lanay That Taylor worked on

38:36Called Saturday Night It's got this great chorus Followed by a killer bridge Here's the bridge I asked Taylor about this bridge And for her It was actually a question Of trying to push borders As an artist And maybe even push The borders of genre itself

39:07Well me in particular I have this thing I'm always in the studio And I refer to a song As a gumbo And you know I'm from the south My mom is from New Orleans Like as a creator Which you're an artist Finding the middle ground Between pushing the boundary And knowing when the audience Is ready for the boundary To be pushed With Raven in particular I was very excited Because of that space Of being like Okay she's flag But not doing traditional R&B And I really Really really like that And I think that There's space for it And also new enough

39:38To where there's not Quite a sound yet There's not a sound Where you know Exactly what to expect From her That lyric in the hook Honestly Was just like I still gag to this day Because it's just giving like I know you miss me On a Saturday night But I'm still Leaving without you That was just like Tea Okay So because we're being So sassy here What are we gonna give And Raven did a lot Of that bridge work And just saying like Okay We've said this We've said this We've said this And now I'm missing

40:09The final Wa-bang This whole conversation With Taylor Was so illuminating You let the song And the artist Dictate the form Of the song And you have to be Open and flexible Enough to respond To that And as long As you're doing that You know The song will tell you What it needs So any concerns That you know Sting might have About the bridge Disappearing I feel like We can assuage those The bridge Isn't going anywhere We've heard some Game-changing bridges Over the course Of this episode

40:40Ultimately It's really a question Of what does the song need And what does the artist Need to convey And actually We can zoom out Over the course Of this whole Four-part series Intro Verse Chorus Bridge You know Form changes And that's a good thing Because people are Trying to express themselves Through music And as long as They're doing that Music is going to Mold itself To be able to Reflect their hopes Fears And desires

41:11I think Taylor Actually puts this Really well Like years ago I would write We need a verse We need a pre-hook We need a hook And maybe that Second time we hear The pre We have extra harmonies And maybe We give all of the Harmonies in the Second hook And then we have This dramatic bridge Done You know what it's Going to be But music has Changed so much And based off of How people are Taking it in You might not Get them To even listen To the bridge Even if you do Have one Based off of

41:42What's happening In the beginning And so you just Have to really Pay attention to What does the song Need And it'll always Lead you in the Right way Like we're literally The music And the way We're creating it We're in the Wild Wild West Right now I find that to be Very inspiring It's like Anything goes As long as You're staying True to yourself And your message And that feels Appropriate for us As we try new Things and we Have to respond To the message Of the song I'm feeling Pretty complete

42:13Right now Except for one Issue What is it Well we've Talked about The intro The verse The chorus And the bridge And you know Pre-chorus Post-chorus That's made it In there too Interlude does Not get its own Episode No But what about The outro Wow We do What are you Going to do To fade out On me It's a problem How do you Wrap things up Succinctly I think I like My outros Like I like Your intros Charlie Short To the point I don't want To waste Anyone's time Let's roll Credits Support for this show

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